Date:     Fri, 3 Sep 1993 16:37:18 -0400

From: Cathy Ball <CBALL%GUVAX.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Diversity of accents



I've just had a call from a Washington Post researcher ... there's a

column called 'Why Things Are', and a reader has written in asking:



    Can you tell me why there is such a diversity of accents in the

    USA?



(this is a column that answers *any questions* on any topics, including

why dogs bark, why the sun rises, etc.). They'd like to have an answer by

early next week. Would anyone care to have a shot at this? I'll fax the

answers to the Post on Tuesday, and will send you a copy of the column

when it appears. Thanks!



 -- Cathy Ball (cball[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.georgetown.edu)



Date:     Fri, 3 Sep 1993 16:44:51 EDT

From: Alphonse Vinh <VINH%YALEVM.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: Diversity of accents



Cathy,

   That's quite a difficult question to answer! Speaking purely and

strictly of the traditional American accents spoken traditionally in the

various American regions, the different dialects/accents are due to the

various immigration patterns of settlers from the British isles. The various

Southern accents were derived from immigrants from the South and Southwestern

regions of the British isles. In the 18th century, the London accent spoken by

the upper classes were also adopted by the colonial Southern gentry and

modified to home use. Other variants in Southern speech can be traced to

migratory patterns of the Scotch-Irish who began to arrive in the American

colonies during the 18th century. Their influence can be seen in the accents

of the Southern hill people. New England was settled by British settlers from

another part of England. Other European immigrant groups such as the Germans

and Irish have influenced local accents in regions and cities where they

came in large enough numbers to be a cultural force. The influence of

African-Americans on the speech of the South cannot be underestimated either.

Before the advent of mass media, Americans probably had more distinct regional

patterns of speaking. There were less movements of people from region to

region, and not only accents but vocabularies were distinct. Of course, the

modern age has broken down a lot of regional differences but Americans still

speak with some diversity thank goodness! Another thing I want to point out is

the conservatism of American pronunciation of English. Colonials tend to

retain the speech patterns of their forebears as they had known it. The

Southern accent is a charming holdover from 17th and 18th century English. The

Norman English, for example, spoke as late as the 13th and 14th century, a

French dialect which had its roots in the 11th century, whilst continental

French continued to evolve and change. One last thing about American accents

that I'd like to stress is the importance of the period in American history

in which immigrants arrived from the British isles had impact on regional

accents.

    --Alphonse Vinh



Date:     Fri, 3 Sep 1993 20:45:56 -0400

From: DARWIN%UNCG.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   New List: Historical Sciences



DARWIN-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UKANAIX.CC.UKANS.EDU

HISTORY AND THEORY OF THE HISTORICAL SCIENCES



DARWIN-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu is an international network discussion group

on the history and theory of the historical sciences. Darwin-L has been

established to promote the reintegration of a range of fields all of which

are concerned with reconstructing the past from evidence in the present, and

to encourage communication among practitioners in these fields. Darwin-L is

not restricted to the work of Charles Darwin, but rather covers the entire

range of historical sciences, including: evolutionary biology, archeology,

historical linguistics, cosmology, textual transmission and stemmatics,

paleontology, historical geology, systematics and phylogeny, historical

anthropology, and historical geography.



Darwin-L welcomes discussion of any of these fields with special reference

to history, theory, and interdisciplinary comparison. Appropriate topics

might include the development of historical linguistics in the 18th and 19th

centuries; stratigraphic approaches to historical reconstruction in geology

and other fields; the genealogical trees produced by systematic biologists,

historical linguists, and students of textual transmission; the comparative

movements of the 19th century (comparative philology, comparative anatomy,

comparative ethnography); the historical clocks used in radiometric dating,

molecular systematics, and historical linguistics; and the representation of

the past in text and diagrams. Darwin-L also welcomes queries, notices,

course outlines, and bibliographies relating to the historical sciences.



To join Darwin-L send an e-mail message to listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu

containing this one line:

          subscribe Darwin-L John Smith

Replace "John Smith" with your own name, of course, and leave the subject

line of the message blank. This message will be processed automatically,

and you will be signed up and sent some introductory information.



Darwin-L is supported by the Center for Critical Inquiry in the Liberal

Arts, University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and by the Department of

History and the Academic Computing Center, University of Kansas. For more

information contact the list owner, Robert J. O'Hara (darwin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]iris.uncg.edu).



Date:     Sun, 5 Sep 1993 11:45:08 -0400

From: Cathy Ball <CBALL%GUVAX.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: Diversity of accents



Thank you very much, Alphonse! Well put. May I include your message in my

FAX to the Post? The columnist is good about attribution. What is your

departmental affiliation at Yale, by the way?



 -- Cathy



Date:     Mon, 6 Sep 1993 11:46:00 GMT

From: ENG0997[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX2.QUEENS-BELFAST.AC.UK

Subject:   Conference on Irish English



FIRST CIRCULAR



INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON

LANGUAGE IN IRELAND



June 22-24 1994

University of Ulster at Jordanstown



As part of the University's 1 0th Anniversary celebrations, the Department of

Communication is organizing an International Conference on Language in Ireland.

Papers and posters are invited that deal with Irish, English (including Hiberno-

English) and other languages within Ireland from any linguistic, phonetic or

related standpoint. It is also intended to run a workshop with local community

groups on the promotion of Irish across communities.



Keynote speakers will include Professor J. McCloskey (University of California),

 Dr

John Harris (University College London) and Professor Ken Hale (MIT).



It is expected that the Conference fee (including three nights accomodation, mea

 ls

and registration) will be under #100. Reductions will be available for students,

 part

attendance, and attendance without accomodation.



Please fill in and return the form below if you wish to receive further details

 in due

course. The closing date for abstracts (3 copies of no more than one side of A4)

 will

be 1 February 1994. Return form to: International Conference on Language in

Ireland, Department of Communication, University of Ulster at Jordanstown,

Newtownabbey, Co Antrim, BT37 OQB. Northern Ireland. Tel: +44 (0)232

365131x2649/2544. Fax: +44 (0)232-362806. E-mail: febh23[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ujvax,ulster.ac.uk /

fehn23[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ujvax.ulster.ac.uk



PARASESSION ON THE GENERATIVE LINGUISTICS OF IRISH

25 June 1994, University of Ulster at Jordanstown



Preliminary call for abstracts of 30-minute papers on all aspects of the generat

 ive

grammar of Irish. Abstracts should not exceed one page and should be sent to Pao

 lo

Acquaviva, Department of Italian OR Maire Ni Chiosain, Department of Linguistics

 ,

Universitv College Dublin, Belfield, Co. Dublin, Republic of Ireland. Abstract

deadline: 1 February 1994.



Further enquiries should be addressed to acquaviv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccvax.ucd.ie OR

chiosain[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ollamh.ucd.ie



International Conference on Language in Ireland



I wish to receive further details



Name:

Address:



Tel:             Fax:

E-mail:



I expect / do not expect to present a paper / poster



Date:     Mon, 6 Sep 1993 11:48:00 GMT

From: ENG0997[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX2.QUEENS-BELFAST.AC.UK

Subject:   Conference on Scots



FOURTH INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON THE LANGUAGES OF SCOTLAND

AND ULSTER



Sabhal Mor Ostaig, August 1-5 1994



First Circular and Call for Papers.



The Forum tor Research in the Languages of Scotland and Ulster

is pleased to announce that the fourth in this series of conferences,

inaugurated at Aberdeen Uni^,-ersity in 1985, will be held at the Gaelic

College of Sabhal Mor Ostaig, on the Isle of Skye, in August 1994.

These conferences have now an established reputation for providing a

meeting-ground on which scholars engaged in research on all the

indigenous languages of Scotland and Ulster - Gaelic, Scots and English

- may profitably exchange ideas and information.



This Fourth Conference in the series will focus particularly on

two themes:



1. 'Let us now praise famous men': pioneers in Scottish and

t.ilster language study.

2. 'Familiar dialects of the meanest vulgar': the social

dimension, past and present.



Offers of papers, on these or on any other aspect of Scottish or Ulster

language study, are cordially invited, and should be sent by 30

November to the following address:



J. Derrick McClure,

Department of English,

King's College,

Aberdeen University,

Old Aberdeen AE9 2UB,

Scotland.



Accommodation for conference delegates will be in the new

residential buildings on the Sabhal Mor campus. Details of the

conrerence's social programme, and of the fee (which will probably be

in the region of 60 pounds), will be announced in future circulars of which

the ne^t will be sent in January 1994.



Date:     Tue, 7 Sep 1993 08:56:47 EDT

From: Alphonse Vinh <VINH%YALEVM.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: Diversity of accents



Cathy,

   You sure can use my musings. I am a Fellow of Berkeley College, Yale

University--that's one of my titles. I am also of the Yale Univesity Library.



         --Alphonse



Date:     Tue, 7 Sep 1993 14:33:40 -0400

From: Cathy Ball <CBALL%GUVAX.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: Diversity of accents



Many thanks to those who sent their contributions on this topic - I

have faxed them to the Post, and fervently hope that the result will be

something sensible, with everything properly attributed!!



 -- Cathy Ball (cball[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.georgetown.edu)



Date:     Sun, 12 Sep 1993 20:37:21 EDT

From: TERRY IRONS <t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUACAD.MOREHEAD-ST.EDU>

Subject:   Defining Dialects



   As a newcomer to the ADS-L discussion network, I feel it

would be appropriate to introduce myself before I stir up any

hornet's nest that may make me look the fool. I am Terry Lynn

Irons and I teach some linguistics in the English department at

Morehead State University (in Kentucky, where we speaks wif an

accent).



   After reading Davis and Houck's article in the Spring

issue of American Speech 92, I have a nagging question into

which I am doing some background historical reading and about

which I, quite frankly, want your help and opinions. The

question is, how do we define a dialect? This question is

at once quite simple but it is very important when placed

in the context of research that disputes the findings of such

luminaries in our field as Kurath and McDavid.



   The idea underlying the work of Kurath and McDavid,

it seems to me, is that a dialect is a bundling of lexical items

and phonological isoglosses.  Davis

and Houck, in their article, try to show that there is nothing

particularly unique about a Midland dialect area in terms of lexical

and phonological features. They would have us believe that there

is no Midland dialect, only a vast "linear transition area."



   In their article Davis and Houck cite an ERIC paper by

C.J. Bailey, who early challenged the notion of a midland dialect.

What Bailey also does in that paper is introduce a new way

of looking at what defines a dialect. Rather than saying

there is no such thing as a MIdland dialect, it seems to

me that what Bailey was trying to do is to point out the

inadequacies of defining a dialect as a "unique configuration

of phonemic, phonic and incidental features," and drawing

upon the excitement generated by the work of Chomsky, he saw

the possibility of defining a dialect in terms of a set of

ordered morphophonemic rules. This is clearly the approach

to defining a dialect that we can see in the recent ongoing

work of Labov.



   In a sense, then, Davis and Houck fall into the same trap

as did Kurath and McDavid. They try to say there is not

a Midland dialect simply based on an analysis of 12 lexical

items and 4 phonological items in a limited (yet valuable)

database representing the speech of mid-century. The failing

of their analysis is that they start with no clear definition

of what constitutes a dialect.



   Which brings me back to my question after my long

digression (I speak Midland English and refuse to be told

that I am a linear transition), how do we define a dialect?

I may end up using simply the elegant phrase (a title of

an article by Marckwardt) regional and social variation in

English and dispense with the notion of dialect altogether,

unless speaking of perhaps AAE or a Creole.



   I invite your responses, your views on what constitutes

a dialect of English, either to me personally or over the list.

I am also searching for discussions of this issue in the history

of dialect literature and any references you could send me would

be most appreciated.



        Dialectally yours,

        Terry Lynn Irons

        Morehead State University

        email: t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msuacad.morehead-st.edu



Date:     Mon, 13 Sep 1993 09:38:16 EDT

From: Bill Kretzschmar <WAKJENGL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: Defining Dialects



Terry's question about how to define dialect is a hot one, and I think crucial

to effective research in language variation. Unfortunately there is no

single answer. For that reason, I think all of us are obligated to reject

easy assumptions and say exactly what we mean when we use the word `dialect'.

Kurath and McDavid do not use any single sharp definition of `dialect' in their

work, though they often described `dialect' in very attractive ways.



I can recommend the lead article in the SIL C. J. Bailey festschrift (1990)

for an interesting recent discussion of the question (by Roy Harris?).



Bill Kretzschmar          706-542-2246

University of Georgia     FAX 706-542-2181



Date:     Mon, 13 Sep 1993 09:40:49 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Defining Dialects



Well, maybe you're a non-linear transition. Actually, aren't we all

transitions unless we live on the Canadian or Mexican borders?

Bob Wachal



Date:     Mon, 13 Sep 1993 09:56:41 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Defining Dialects



I always thought a dialect was a set of shared speech patterns that could

be linked to the biography of the speakers, e.g., region of upbringing or

residence, socioeconomic class, ethnicity, gender.

Bob Wachal



Date:     Mon, 13 Sep 1993 10:02:35 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Defining Dialects



Oops! Forgot to mention age.

Bob



On Mon, 13 Sep 1993, wachal robert s wrote:



> I always thought a dialect was a set of shared speech patterns that could

> be linked to the biography of the speakers, e.g., region of upbringing or

> residence, socioeconomic class, ethnicity, gender.

> Bob Wachal



Date:     Mon, 13 Sep 1993 15:09:21 -0500

From: 00v0horvath%BSUVAX1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   Davis & Houck



I am a grad. student at Ball State University and I am coming to

the defense of my professors (if defense they need at all).

I don't think Davis & Houck fell into any trap. The point of

their paper was, if I understood it well, that they operated with

the same notion of dialect ("bundling of lexical items

and phonological isoglosses") and used the same "limited (yet

valuable) database representing the speech of mid-century" that

Kurath & McDavid did when they posited the existence of a Midland

dialect. Using the same data Davis & Houck failed to find what

Kurath and McDavid claimed to have found. This doesn't mean, however, that

their analysis "failed". What they found instead

was a "linear transition".

I think the article does provoke some thoughts about the

necessity for (re)defining the notion of dialect -- but this was

simply out of the scope of that paper.

Dialectally yours,

Vera Horvath



Date:     Mon, 13 Sep 1993 15:48:05 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Davis & Houck



Yes, i know their work and even was the reader for an AMERICAN SPEECH

article. You are entirely correct except that No one has yet said why

dialect is hard to define or needs redefining.

bob wachal



On Mon, 13 Sep 1993 00v0horvath%BSUVAX1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu wrote:



> I am a grad. student at Ball State University and I am coming to

> the defense of my professors (if defense they need at all).

> I don't think Davis & Houck fell into any trap. The point of

> their paper was, if I understood it well, that they operated with

> the same notion of dialect ("bundling of lexical items

> and phonological isoglosses") and used the same "limited (yet

> valuable) database representing the speech of mid-century" that

> Kurath & McDavid did when they posited the existence of a Midland

> dialect. Using the same data Davis & Houck failed to find what

> Kurath and McDavid claimed to have found. This doesn't mean, however, that

> their analysis "failed". What they found instead

> was a "linear transition".

> I think the article does provoke some thoughts about the

> necessity for (re)defining the notion of dialect -- but this was

> simply out of the scope of that paper.

> Dialectally yours,

> Vera Horvath



Date:     Tue, 14 Sep 1993 15:42:26 EDT

From: Robert Kelly <kelly[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LEVY.BARD.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Defining Dialects



I would like it to be as simple as: a dialect is that form of speech which

identifies the speaker as coming from a definite region, as perceived by native

hearers. As one of the last living speakers of a micro-dialect (Northside,

a pre-turn of the century Englishy New York City pattern preserved till World

War II in some parts of Williamsburgh), alas, I can't define my own by that

simple rule, since I can walk down the street where I was born and be asked:

Are you from England? (In England, I'm supposed Canadian.)



So tell us what you find out, a practical definition (almost by definition

non-Chomskyan, I fear) that at the same time is true to the experience of

living speakers. If it isn't that, what can linguistics be?



rk



Date:     Tue, 14 Sep 1993 15:10:13 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Defining Dialects



Why limit "dialect" to region when people frequently speak of social dialects?

Bob Wachal



On Tue, 14 Sep 1993, Robert Kelly wrote:



> I would like it to be as simple as: a dialect is that form of speech which

> identifies the speaker as coming from a definite region, as perceived by native

> hearers. As one of the last living speakers of a micro-dialect (Northside,

> a pre-turn of the century Englishy New York City pattern preserved till World

> War II in some parts of Williamsburgh), alas, I can't define my own by that

> simple rule, since I can walk down the street where I was born and be asked:

> Are you from England? (In England, I'm supposed Canadian.)

>

> So tell us what you find out, a practical definition (almost by definition

> non-Chomskyan, I fear) that at the same time is true to the experience of

> living speakers. If it isn't that, what can linguistics be?

>

> rk



Date:     Wed, 15 Sep 1993 11:37:00 -0500

From: Joan Livingston-Webber <webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:   A Dialectal Insult?



Between kindergarten and 3rd grade in southwestern Pennsylvania

in the early 50's, the worst insult we could hurl at a playmate

was to call them "a white south African cootie." I've been

thinking of using "cootie" and "cute" for transcription in Intro,

but now I'm wondering about the phrase in two ways.



I always assumed that a cootie was a bug, maybe like lice (this

child's prototype of a bad bug). I'm wondering now if there is some

racist origin that I ought to be aware of. (H-m-m, I just now

remembered the game Cootie, with the shiney plastic bug, which was

also part of the same child culture.)



Secondly, I'm wondering if this was a regional as well as age

related phrase. (Adults never used it. When we moved from that

neighborhood after 3rd grade, I don't think I heard it again. But

we moved to a neighborhood with few children.) It was a true

insult--I would never have called it to a big kid or a grown up,

and it was always used in direct address. It never took a third person

subject.



Anyone else know the phrase?

--

Joan Livingston-Webber  webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu

"It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG



Date:     Wed, 15 Sep 1993 13:33:32 CDT

From: "Donald M. Lance" <ENGDL%MIZZOU1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: A Dialectal Insult?



Cooties are head lice. And of course references to them are sensitive.

It's an excellent word to use in talking about transcription. Last Friday,

for instance, when I was pointing out that my students has mistranscribed

a [yu] word, I told them I was going to violate all kinds of political

correctness and ask them a question -- Would they rather be a cooties or

cuties? Another good pair is booty and beauty. The fact that the name of the

letter is [yu] makes them think they have transcribed the "long u" when they

transcribe [u]. But then they'd rather be cuties than cooties, so maybe they

will remember the distinction a little better.

It's also interesting to ask them what cooties are. They have some interesting

ideas, going back to all kinds of repressed memories of insults during

childhood, insults just like those Joan mentioned.   DMLance, U of Mo



Date:     Wed, 15 Sep 1993 22:39:21 -0700

From: "Thomas L. Clark" <tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: A Dialectal Insult?



Your message dated: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 11:37:00 -0500

--------

> --on cooties, cutey!

> Joan Livingston-Webber  webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu

> "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG



A song from boy scout camp included the verses:

  Oh it ain't gonna rain no more, no more,

  It ain't gonna rain no more.

  How in the heck

  Can I wash my neck

  If it ain't gonna rain no more.



  Oh I woke up in the morning

  And looked up on the wall

  The cooties and the bedbugs

  Were having a game of ball.



  The score was six to nothing,

  The cooties were a head,

  I got so durned excited,

  I fell right out of bed.



Of course we found the pun on 'ahead' and 'a head' absolutely hilarious.

Sophisticated bunch, those scouts.



-------------------------------------------------------

Thomas L. Clark English Department UNLV 89154

tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu



Date:     Thu, 16 Sep 1993 09:34:58 RSA

From: lynne murphy <104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WITSVMA.WITS.AC.ZA>

Subject:   white south african cootie



i showed this "white south african cootie" insult to some of the

white south africans in my dept., and they were amazed. the head of

my dept. tells me that when his kids were going to school in the u.s.

for a time in the '70s, they were taunted for being "african south

africans" (they're white). i wonder to what extent 'african' is now

used as an insult to whites in the u.s.



m. lynne murphy

dept. of linguistics

university of the witwatersrand, johannesburg



Date:     Thu, 16 Sep 1993 09:19:52 -0500

From: Joan Livingston-Webber <webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: A Dialectal Insult?



I'm interested in the reply from south Africa. As far as I'm

concerned, there was no political awareness in this 5 year old

in 1952 yelling, "You're a white south African cootie." (Was

there a political entity referred to as "South Africa" in 1952?)

I also

haven't heard the insult since about 1955. But I'm wondering

where or how the "south African" entered as a modifier that makes

a phrase an insult. As far as I know, it is not current anymore.

--

Joan Livingston-Webber  webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu

"It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG



Date:     Thu, 16 Sep 1993 12:16:24 -0400

From: "J. Chambers" <chambers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>

Subject:   Momentos



Readers of the ADS-List should know that two of our colleagues died recently.



Ossi Ihalainen died yesterday, of injuries sustained in a one-car

automobile accident. (This news comes from Sheila Embleton, on

sabbatical in Helsinki.)



Murray Kinloch, one of the gentlest men in our profession, died of a

heart attack in New Brunswick on August 25.



                RIP.



                        --Jack Chambers



Date:     Thu, 16 Sep 1993 11:51:51 EDT

From: TERRY IRONS <t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUACAD.MOREHEAD-ST.EDU>

Subject:   More Cooties



   An entry on "cootie" may be found on page 770 ov Volume I of

DARE. Term is not listed as a regionalism, but the entry speculates

that the term might be derived from Malay kutu, for a biting insect.

Any thoughts on that? There are no entries for a phrase african cootie,

but a "west african cootie" might need to show up in a later volume.



  "Coot" is listed as a clipping for "cootie" and also as a name

for a duck. I know the word "coot" in the phrase "old coot" to refer

to a cantankerous or lecherous older man or some such, yet I see no

entry. Does anyone else have such a usage or am I misremembering

something?  Or does this "coot" mean 'lazy, indolent person' and thus

is a clipped form of entry 5 under "cooter" on page 769?



Terry Irons



PS: "booty" is now boodilicous in rap music



Date:     Thu, 16 Sep 1993 23:55:19 CDT

From: "Donald M. Lance" <ENGDL%MIZZOU1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



I think that cootness and white-collar status can intersect. Even a

professor of English literature can be an old coot in his behavior. And

didn't you (not me, of course) sometimes think one of our former presidents

behaved like an old coot on occasion?

                   DMLance, U of Mo



Date:     Thu, 16 Sep 1993 11:20:39 -0500

From: Joan Livingston-Webber <webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



For me, an "old coot" is rustic sounding and means something

on the order of old codger or old geyser. It doesn't imply

lazy but something more like he's (invariably he) been

around these parts a while, he's probably 50 or older, and

he probably was never a white collar worker. He leans on

fence (on a farm or around a construction site) and does

sidewalk superintending. (But he's more quaint than lazy.)

My grandfather is an old coot and he might even actively use

the term. (He is a repository of south midland relics. It is

a dialect, you know. He speaks it.)



I had thought of using coot and cute, but I wondered if anyone

in my class would have heard coot. In North Dakota, a coot

is a little black duck often seen in the water in roadside

ditches, hanging out, just like an old coot would.

--

Joan Livingston-Webber  webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu

"It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG



Date:     Fri, 17 Sep 1993 07:08:44 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



On most occasions, I believe.

I qualify by age, but I'm not an old coot. I'm a curmudgeon. Right, Don?

Bob Wachal



On Thu, 16 Sep 1993, Donald M. Lance wrote:



> I think that cootness and white-collar status can intersect. Even a

> professor of English literature can be an old coot in his behavior. And

> didn't you (not me, of course) sometimes think one of our former presidents

> behaved like an old coot on occasion?

>                   DMLance, U of Mo



Date:     Fri, 17 Sep 1993 07:12:39 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   air-controllers' goodbyes



On a recent trip from Las Vegas to Iowa City I listened to the pilots'

channel. When a conversation was finished, it di not conclude with "over

and out" but with "g'day". This was true at LV, at Denver, and from the

regional tower at Mpls. When did this start and is it nationwide?

international? I'll do a squib for American Speech after I get some

responses.

Thanks in advance.

Bob Wachal



Date:     Fri, 17 Sep 1993 09:50:59 -0700

From: "Thomas L. Clark" <tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



Your message dated: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 07:08:44 -0500

--------

> On most occasions, I believe.

> I qualify by age, but I'm not an old coot. I'm a curmudgeon. Right, Don?

> Bob Wachal



No, no, no, Bob. One of the quaint characteristics of the curmudgeon is that

he (there are no female curmudgeons) never uses the term to describe

himself; indeed, appears not to know the word. Relish your coothood.

Cheers,

tlc

-------------------------------------------------------

Thomas L. Clark English Department UNLV 89154

tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 11:06:37 -0400

From: "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783" <BERGDAHL%OUACCVMB.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>



I remember reading somewhere that "cootie" was brought back to the US

from France after WWI.



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 09:49:25 PDT

From: Roger Vanderveen <rvander[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ICHIPS.INTEL.COM>

Subject:   air-controllers' goodbyes



  On a recent trip from Las Vegas to Iowa City I listened to the pilots'

  channel. When a conversation was finished, it di not conclude with "over

  and out" but with "g'day". This was true at LV, at Denver, and from the



In my experience as a private pilot for the last fifteen years, "good day" or

even "good day, sir" has been a common signoff message. This is probably

more true after an extended conversation, such as with a regional traffic

controller, rather than with a control tower during departure or landing

(in which case the last three letters or numbers of the aircraft identification

is the usual acknowledgment, e.g.: "three zulu foxtrot").



In civilian flying I have never heard "over and out". (Just another

misconception from the reality of television.)



Roger



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 09:54:46 PDT

From: Roger Vanderveen <rvander[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ICHIPS.INTEL.COM>

Subject:   Cooties



In my great uncle's autobiography, he describes the time he spent as a some

sort of group leader in France in WWI. He mentions having noticed lice in

the hair of one of his men, and asked him, "Vernon, have you got cooties?"

Struck me funny, as I'd always thought of cooties as something imaginary that

girls had.



I suspect from this that the term was in common usage in the US before the war.



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 12:32:57 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: air-controllers' goodbyes



I didn't hear "good day" only "g'day" and no "sir"

Wacgal



On Sat, 18 Sep 1993, Roger Vanderveen wrote:



>   On a recent trip from Las Vegas to Iowa City I listened to the pilots'

>   channel. When a conversation was finished, it di not conclude with "over

>   and out" but with "g'day". This was true at LV, at Denver, and from the

>

> In my experience as a private pilot for the last fifteen years, "good day" or

> even "good day, sir" has been a common signoff message. This is probably

> more true after an extended conversation, such as with a regional traffic

> controller, rather than with a control tower during departure or landing

> (in which case the last three letters or numbers of the aircraft identification

> is the usual acknowledgment, e.g.: "three zulu foxtrot").

>

> In civilian flying I have never heard "over and out". (Just another

> misconception from the reality of television.)

>

> Roger



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 14:35:07 CDT

From: "Donald M. Lance" <ENGDL%MIZZOU1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



Yeah, Bob. I take back part of what I said. Professors of English and/or

Linguistics would be curmugeons rather than old coots.



More seriously: 'young coot' would be figurative, but is 'middle-aged coot'

less figurative. That is, is figurativeness  scalar, as seems to me to be

the case in terms describing age-graded characteristics. Or is there a better

term to describe the use of 'coot' in 'young coot'?

                          DMLance



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 16:32:53 EST

From: Boyd Davis <FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



I remember, in elementary school, making 'cootie-catchers' by folding

paper in such a way that you could insert the thumb and middle finger

into the 'pointy-caps' and wiggle the paper up and down. To waggle a

cootie-catcher (they look somewhat like one of Madonna's bustiers) at

someone was a grave insult, and all us girls thought it hilarious.

  This may have been gender-specific; I never saw anyone but girls

make or waggle them.



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 17:26:34 -0400

From: Scott R Knitter <knitters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]STUDENT.MSU.EDU>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



> I remember, in elementary school, making 'cootie-catchers' by folding

> paper in such a way that you could insert the thumb and middle finger

> into the 'pointy-caps' and wiggle the paper up and down. To waggle a

> cootie-catcher (they look somewhat like one of Madonna's bustiers) at

> someone was a grave insult, and all us girls thought it hilarious.

>   This may have been gender-specific; I never saw anyone but girls

> make or waggle them.

>



Perhaps my elementary school was on the progressive side, but for a year or so,

cootie-catcher-making was an equal-opportunity pastime. We boys never waggled

them, but I remember making them. They were compelling in the same way those

plastic 8-balls with the little future-telling window were.



Scott Knitter

knitters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]student.msu.edu

East Lansing, MI



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 19:11:00 EDT

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



Boyd if you'd ever have come across the river to Nawbknee, you would of found

plenty of us male cootie-catcher makers. (I still make 'em for nieces and

nephews and draw horrible cooties on the inside.)

Dennis Preston



Date:     Sat, 18 Sep 1993 19:48:47 -0700

From: Donald Livingston <deljr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Cootie-catchers



On Sat, 18 Sep 1993, Boyd Davis wrote:



> I remember, in elementary school, making 'cootie-catchers' by folding

> paper in such a way that you could insert the thumb and middle finger

> into the 'pointy-caps' and wiggle the paper up and down.



In grade school in Arizona in the early 70's such cootie-catchers were

common. The inner leaves were inscribed with various messages, while the

outer-lives contained colors and numbers. The colors and numbers were

used to open and close the CC in such a way as to tell fortunes.



Talk about semantic drift!



All the best, DL.



Date:     Sun, 19 Sep 1993 10:22:13 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



Your examples certainly suggest that figurativeness is scalar.

Bob



On Sat, 18 Sep 1993, Donald M. Lance wrote:



> Yeah, Bob. I take back part of what I said. Professors of English and/or

> Linguistics would be curmugeons rather than old coots.

>

> More seriously: 'young coot' would be figurative, but is 'middle-aged coot'

> less figurative. That is, is figurativeness  scalar, as seems to me to be

> the case in terms describing age-graded characteristics. Or is there a better

> term to describe the use of 'coot' in 'young coot'?

>                          DMLance



Date:     Sun, 19 Sep 1993 13:44:05 -0400

From: "ALAN E. MAYS, PERIODICALS, HARRISBURG"<AEM%PSULIAS.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: Cootie-catchers



On childhood play involving cooties, cootie-catchers, and fortune-tellers,

see Sue Samuelson's articles "The Cooties Complex," _Western Folklore_ 39 (

1980): 198-210, and "How to Make a Paper Fortuneteller," _Cobblestone_,

July 1983, pp. 24-25. Simon Bronner also mentions "Fortune-Tellers" in

_American Children's Folklore_, annotated ed., (Little Rock, Ark.: August

House, 1988), pp. 210. 213.



Alan Mays

Penn State Harrisburg

AEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]psulias.psu.edu



Date:     Mon, 20 Sep 1993 12:18:16 EDT

From: Robert Kelly <kelly[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LEVY.BARD.EDU>

Subject:   Re: More Cooties



I have to say a word about the root IMAGE in "old coot" -- whatever else it is,

a coot is a black duck-like bird with a very conspicuous white blaze on the

forehead. That seems to equal "white haired old man" -- so while a curmudgeon

might be any age (at least after you're old enough to register Republican), a

coot is, at least imagistically, of advanced years.



Incidentally, a coot-like bird with a RED blaze is the gallinule---should we

save that word for those who in late life dye their hair to prevent being

perceived as o.c.'s?



Agedly,



rk



Date:     Mon, 20 Sep 1993 12:49:04 -0500

From: Anita Henderson <HEND%UKANVAX.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: A Dialectal Insult?



I am a black female from southeastern Pennsylvania

(Philadelphia area). We used to say something

gave us the cooties, meaning gave us the creeps. But

I am also familiar with the cooties as lice use.

Anita Henderson

KU Lawrence, KS



Date:     Tue, 21 Sep 1993 15:41:50 -0500

From: Joan Livingston-Webber <webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Cootie-catchers



In western PA in about 1957, these things were not called cootie-

catchers. I don't recall ever hearing them named. But we used them

to tell fortunes, by writing a fortune under each flap and

having the tellee pick numbers that we opened and closed to the

count of before lifting the flap to tell the fortune. In the early

80's I taught this to my children in North Dakota.

>

> On Sat, 18 Sep 1993, Boyd Davis wrote:

>

> > I remember, in elementary school, making 'cootie-catchers' by folding

> > paper in such a way that you could insert the thumb and middle finger

> > into the 'pointy-caps' and wiggle the paper up and down.

>

> In grade school in Arizona in the early 70's such cootie-catchers were

> common. The inner leaves were inscribed with various messages, while the

> outer-lives contained colors and numbers. The colors and numbers were

> used to open and close the CC in such a way as to tell fortunes.

>

> Talk about semantic drift!

>

> All the best, DL.



--

Joan Livingston-Webber  webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu

"It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG



Date:     Tue, 21 Sep 1993 19:47:44 -0500

From: 00v0horvath%BSUVAX1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   Re: Cootie-catchers



Well, I can't help providing a piece of evidence from overseas.

We also played "cootie-catchers" in Hungary in the 70s ...

I don't remember whether we called it by any name. If we did, it certainly was

in Hungarian, though.



Vera Horvath



Date:     Wed, 22 Sep 1993 09:45:25 -0500

From: Natalie Maynor <maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Subject:   Digests



Somebody recently asked about the digest option on ADS-L. I had assumed

ever since that feature was added to LISTSERV that a list without LISTSERV

logs couldn't use it. I just found out that's not the case and have

set the digest option for ADS-L on now. If you'd prefer to have a whole

day's list mail compiled into one mailing, send this command to the

listserv:

set ads-l digests



  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



Date:     Wed, 22 Sep 1993 18:39:44 RSA

From: Lynne Murphy <104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WITSVMA.WITS.AC.ZA>

Subject:   cabinet etymology



i promised my students i'd research this for them, so if anyone has

an answer, please let me know:



does anyone know how 'cabinet' came to mean 'milkshake' (or 'frappe'

or 'velvet' or whatever you want to call it) in the rhode island

area? the american heritage dictionary suggests that it might be

from the cabinet that housed the mixer, but that doesn't sound too

definite (and besides, it's not that interesting a story! i need to

entertain the masses!) either confirmation of the ahd or other

etymologies would be appreciated.



thanks in advance,

lynne murphy

dept. of linguistics

university of the witwatersrand, johannesburg



Date:     Wed, 22 Sep 1993 14:43:23 EDT

From: TERRY IRONS <t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUACAD.MOREHEAD-ST.EDU>

Subject:   cabinet etymology



   When I saw your query about "cabinet," I first ran to my trusty

bible--DARE--where I find the following, which isn't the fun story

you want, but....



   1968 DARE File MA (as of 1920s), Cabinet is said by Dorothy

Cahill of Fall River to have originated in a drugstore there, named

by a pharmacist who concocted it. The ice cream was kept in those

days in a cabinet that was part of the soda-fountain set-up.

                    (p 500)



 The terms frappe, milk shake, and cabinet supposedly have

regional distribution. As a youngster I must admit I never

heard the word used with this kind of sense. I wonder if

the word is active in RI vocabulary anymore.



  Even though the etymology is uncertain, deriving the name

from the cabinet wherein the ice cream was kept can be explained

as a metonymic process, whereby that which is contiguous is substituted

for that to which we actually refer. CF: The White House announced

today...



  Does anyone know what the White House announced today?



Terry Irons



Date:     Wed, 22 Sep 1993 14:31:56 CDT

From: "Donald M. Lance" <ENGDL%MIZZOU1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: cabinet etymology



The White House announced today that a cabinet somewhere in the world

underwent a great shake-up. There was a great sucking sound, followed

by ffrraaaappe!



In the 1940s in South Texas drug stores had malts and shakes. I think in

other regions the malt was called a malted. What regional patterns are

out there now, and what changes have taken place. Now, with franchises,

blizzards, frostys, and other concoctions are protected by trademark

laws. Has anyone noticed genericness trends in some of this terminology?

I don't shop around enough to do primary research on these items, but it seems

to me that the franchises make them sufficiently differently to keep the

names distinct.         DMLance



Date:     Wed, 22 Sep 1993 22:03:07 EST

From: Boyd Davis <FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU>

Subject:   how do cooties tell fortunes?



Somebody must be in mid-article, because everything useful in folklore

is checked out. How do you use cootie-catchers to tell fortunes? I'm

used to the monsters Dennis makes, and I get a 'picture' from the 8-ball

that was mentioned - what's the discourse routine? and how did the

cootie-catcher become a fortune-telling device?



Date:     Thu, 23 Sep 1993 00:04:50 EDT

From: Robert Kelly <kelly[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LEVY.BARD.EDU>

Subject:   Re: cabinet etymology



A better story. "Cabinet" is more likely to have meant, in genteel 19th

centuryese, a parlor or small apartment --- Step into my cabinet...---

and thus have been chosen to dignify the premiere (=most expensive) ice

cream concoction, somewhat the way "club" (from country club) was used for

steaks and sandwiches. Thus a cabinet would have been short for (I'd bet)

a cabinet float or the like. We now can at least see Rhode Islanders smug

in their parlors, sipping. The Elizabeth in Providence might give the flavor

of how it was...



rk



Date:     Thu, 23 Sep 1993 08:30:59 RSA

From: lynne murphy <104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WITSVMA.WITS.AC.ZA>

Subject:   cabinet



in response to terry iron's wondering about whether 'cabinet' is still

used in rhode island. i do know that it's used in some parts of mass.

still (or as of 7 years ago, when i went to college at umass/amherst).

thought it's not regularly used in amherst, there were students from the

eastern part oft he state who did use it.



also, one of my favorite stories is about a restaurant in hadley, mass

(between amherst and northampton on the connecticut river), which lists

on its menu "frappes". just in case you're an out-of-towner who doesn't

know what a frappe is, they give a translation in parentheses:

'(cabinets)'.



thanks for the research...i don't have a DARE here so your troubles are

much appreciated.



lynne murphy

dept. of linguistics

u of the witwatersrand, johannesburg



Date:     Thu, 23 Sep 1993 09:38:03 EDT

From: Larry Horn <LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU>

Subject:   More cabinets



I have nothing to contribute to the etymology query, interesting as it is, but

I can vouch for the continued existence of cabinets in luncheonettes. On my

last visit to Misquamicut/Watch Hill (a beach resort just over the Connecticut

line), cabinets did appear on the menu, unglossed, and ice-cream cone

buyers could pay 10 cents extra for shots (i.e. sprinkles, jimmies). Maybe it

was all a show for tourists, like the authentic Rhode Island version of clam

chowder (no milk, no tomatoes). As to other regional variants, New York in

the 1950's of my youth distinguished 'malted milks' from '(milk) shakes', and

as Donald Lance suggests, the former (chacterized extensionally by [+malt])

were also regularly called 'malteds', at least in my largely Jewish set. But

the vowel would then have to be more of a schwa ('malted' thus rhymed with

'stulted' or 'exulted') and the stops dental. This phonology was especially

mandatory for performing a local joke of the period, which for some reason

struck us all as hilarious:



  GENIE: Your vish is my command.

  GUY WITH LAMP: Make me a malted.

  GENIE: Pfffft! [puff of smoke] You're a malted!



Doesn't work without Yinglish inflection, or I suspect with cabinets.



                           --Larry Horn



Date:     Wed, 29 Sep 1993 13:12:15 +22305606

From: "Ellen Johnson Faq. Filosofia y Hdes."       <ejohnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ABELLO.SECI.UCHILE.CL>

Subject:   tesol and dialects



I'm back on-line after a couple of months with no access to e-mail and it's

nice to be back in touch. (I'm teaching in Chile this semester.) I have a

question to pose to all of you. If anyone has done any work on this topic, I

would appreciate some advice.



I've been asked to give a talk at the annual TESOL conference in Santiago on

dialects of American English. For learners of English as a foreign language,

mwhat do you think is the most important thing for them to consider regarding

lg. variation in the US? Obviously, standard, nonstandard, and regional

standards are topics to discuss. Something about passive versus productive

competence is also in order. What else?



The hidden political agenda here is that of British vs. American. Most

teachers have been trained (and prefer to teach) with the RP model. Now they

are expected to teach American English and are understandably apprehensive

about the notion of multiple "correct" pronunciations. In addition, the

variety their students are most motivated to learn is a nonstandard one, i.e.,

those they hear in movies and from rap and other music. The prescriptivists

nightmare!



This is a subject I haven't researched before and there are few materials

available to

me here. The list has been pretty quiet lately and I like getting mail from

home, so I thought I'd throw it out for discussion. I want to let the audience

know about the interesting speech/cultural differences in a way that can be

helpful pedagogically rather than seeming to add complex demands to an already

difficult task.



Ellen JOhnson ejohnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]abello.seci.uchile.cl



Date:     Wed, 29 Sep 1993 19:48:24 -0700

From: Donald Livingston <deljr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU>

Subject:   Re: tesol and dialects



On Wed, 29 Sep 1993, Ellen Johnson Faq. Filosofia y Hdes. wrote:



> For learners of English as a foreign language,

> what do you think is the most important thing for them to consider regarding

> lg. variation in the US? Obviously, standard, nonstandard, and regional

> standards are topics to discuss. Something about passive versus productive

> competence is also in order. What else?



As a Slavicist I'm out of my field in responding to this question, but as

one who has dealt with many non-native speakers of English I imagine my

comments won't be completely without common sense. Some Slavs I have

known have been taken aback when traveling through the South where

pronunciation and grammar differ from traditional text-book presentations,

therefore ...



It strikes me that it would be valuable to comment on the widespread

pronoun "y'all" and its possessive "y'all's". Some references to Southern

US English that I have seen comment that "y'all" is invariably plural; my

experience contradicts that assertion. Certainly there are many places in

Arkansas, at least, where "y'all" is applied to a single individual with

no other individual or group implied.



In terms of general variation of English (not just the South), the

ubiquitous "ain't" should be noted as acceptable in many social circles,

though not in academia nor in formal circumstances. And speakers of ESL

should be made aware that colloquial English changes with profound

rapidity. For example, in Spring of 1980 the first time I heard someone

say, "Do you wanna go with?" I did a double-take, absolutely convinced

that no native speaker of English could ever produce such a sentence.

("Do you wanna go" sounded fine to me, but the "with" at the end seemed

incredibly unnatural. Does anyone out there have an earlier record of

it?) But now the construction seems nation-wide and sitcom-acceptable.



All the best to you, Ms. Johnson, on your upcoming presentation. Hope my

thoughts are helpful, if not in substance, then at least in provoking more

thought. DL.



Date:     Thu, 30 Sep 1993 08:09:00 EDT

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   tesol and dialects



I was so completely focused on the British versus American English for export

question in my first answer to Ellen Johnson's request that I completely

overlooked another resource she will have in Chile (and that any other ESL

professionals abroad will have).

In the mid-1970's, Roger Shuy and I did a series for USIA called. The

Varieties of American English.' It is quite specifically a collection of

materials for the introduction of lanaguge variation concerns to TESOL

practitioners (specifically, non-native ESL teachers).

The series consists of three video tapes (also in film format): Regional

Dialects; Social Matters; and Stylistic Concerns. These films are accompanied

by both a handbook for the local presenter and an audio tape of more examples

to work on.

Perhaps more directly to Ellen's request, there is also a reader (Varieties of

American English) in the series which contains a number of more advanced

articles on the matter of world and local US varieites as concerns in ESL as

well as general articles on other aspects of variation. Each article is

accompanied by a rather extensive set of suggestions for research and/or

discussion.

A local consular officer should be able to arrange for the use of these

materials.

Dennis R. Preston <22709mgr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msu.bitnet>



Date:     Thu, 30 Sep 1993 07:50:00 EDT

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   tesol and dialects



So far as I know the only systematic study of the results of teaching British

English, American English, and 'mixed' English (in which variability was both

taught and tolerated) was carried out in Poland at Adam Mickiewicz University

in the early 1970's. The research focused on attitudinal results as well as

production and comprehension matters. Although there are a number of in-house

and unpublished reports associated with this research, a summary of results is

given in W. Marton and D. Preston, 'British and American English for Polish

University Students: Research Report and Projections' Glottodidactica

(Poznan), Vol. VIII, 1975, pp. 27-43.

Please let me know if Glottodidactica is a big seller in Chile.

The late Harold Allen, Rudolph Troike, and I have all written about dialect

variation and ESL at various times in the TESOL Quarterly (which ought to be

available) and in other places. Much of this stuff is summarized in my

Sociolinguistics and Second Language Acquisition, Blackwell, 1989.

Those things ought to be a little more available, and the TESOL Quarterly also

has some good articles sprinkled over the years on the matter of social and

other aspects of variation and ESL.

Dennis Preston <22709mgr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msu.bitnet>



Date:     Thu, 30 Sep 1993 08:46:56 -0500

From: wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>

Subject:   Re: tesol and dialects



"Do you want to go woth?" is a loan translation construction from other

Germanic languages and has been common in IA MN and WI (and probably

elsewher) since the immigration from non-English Germanic lg countries.

It is alive and well today

Bob Wachal



Date:     Thu, 30 Sep 1993 19:29:00 EDT

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: tesol and dialects



Bob Wachal's surmise that "Do you want to go with?" (and such other glaringly

object-less constructions) as a loan translation form other Germanic languages

is more widespread than IA, MN, and WI is certainly correct. It is a

commonly-known form in Western MI which, of course, has it from Dutch. It is

interesting to note, however, that it seems to be known as a Dutch sub-speech

community form there. In many parts of Wisconsin, it is a norm not suspected

to be German at all. My Milwaukee-Sicilian father-in-law has it but does not

known that its pedigree is slightly differnt from run-of-the-mill standard

English constructions.

Dennis Preston <22709mgr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msu.bitnet>



Date:     Thu, 30 Sep 1993 22:18:07 -0700

From: Roger Vanderveen <vdveen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETCOM.COM>

Subject:   tesol and dialects



  Bob Wachal says:

    "Do you want to go with?" is a loan translation construction from other

    Germanic languages and has been common in IA MN and WI (and probably

    elsewher) since the immigration from non-English Germanic lg countries.

    It is alive and well today



I was going to state that the first times I heard that expression was from a

immigrant from Chicago to California about 1969, when I read the above message;

I then realized that this person had grown up (well, he was about 10 years old)

ina Dutch community there. Dutch has the word "mee", which means "with" with

and implied pronoun. "Wil je mee gaan?" "You want to go with?"



-- Roger van der Veen



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