Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:14:00 -0400 From: Barnhart Subject: Re: icebox and upstate Two items surface in this discussion of the distribution of icebox. Ice came from as close to Brooklyn as Verplanck, NY (Peekskill vacinity), where a section of a bay (Lake Mehan (spelling?) as I recall) was dammed for the purpose of harvesting ice from the Hudson. That was in the days of the icehouses used to store it through the summer and fall. One of the important cargo items for Hudson River sloops was ice. A storyteller in the lower Hudson Valley has been having a bit of a debate with another person on the definition of upstate in New York. He grew up in Westcherster (I believe). That's the first county in New York State north of New York City. To residents of New York City and Westchester/Putnam County, where does upstate begin? Pick a town (or city) or other landmark. In terms of the linguistic atlas data, I suspect that the increase of territory in the commutershed of New York City has pushed the "line" north at least to Poughkeepsie on the eastern bank of the Hudson River. West of the Hudson River the "line" may be as close as Newburgh or even farther south. David K. Barnhart Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]