Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:37:25 -0400 From: Bob Lancaster Subject: born in a barn We have always used "born in a barn" primarily to refer to failure to close the door, but secondarily in reference to any actions that treat the house as if it might as well be a barn--eg., leaving clothes on the floor, shouting and yelling, etc. Hence to some degree the phrase is concerned with "manners." In this regard, by the way, I don't believe the distinction between manners and ethics and morals which Lew Sanbourne made is entirely valid. Truly good manners are not concerned simply with elbows on the table; their rational is surely the need to act with kindness, compassion, and gentility in all the appropriate circumstances. Seen this way, they cover a lot of virtues.ra Bob Lancaster SUNY emeritus - English (Sorry about that - "rationale")