Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 20:03:27 EDT From: flanigan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU Subject: anymore, needs+pp, V+with Ohio University Electronic Communication Date: 29-Oct-1994 08:02pm EST To: Remote Addressee ( _mx%"ads-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.bitnet ) From: Beverly Flanigan Dept: Linguistics FLANIGAN Tel No: Subject: anymore, needs+pp, V+with Several comments on several threads: -- Like fellow Northerner (and friend) Bev Hartford, I had never heard positive, or fronted, 'anymore' before going down to Bloomington, Indiana. In fact, after having heard a paper on the many syntactic and semantic constraints on 'anymore' (at the Summer ADS meeting in Albuquerque in 1980, by Frank Parker?), I was amazed to hear every rule confirmed when I moved to Southeastern Ohio. I've heard it from people from as far north as Akron, but no farther; nor have I heard it from "Deep" Southerners. -- Unlike Bev, I don't recall hearing "needs+p.p." in Bloomington, but it is ubiquitous in this part of Ohio, and is by no means limited to the "uneducated townies," contrary to what my out-of-state undergraduates (and some graduates) think. Indeed, one of my graduate students (from Portsmouth, Ohio) said that, rather like Joan Livingston-Webber, she had never heard any alternate form until she came to Ohio University. I like to show my classes a clipping from the local newspaper showing the "Pillar Paintin'" of a church, with the caption "The pillar bases needed replaced because they were rotting." A reader (clearly an outsider, probably a "gownie") wrote in to complain that his second-grader was "having enough trouble speaking English correctly," and that while he "hate[d] to be picky," "maybe the editor needs woke up"; to which the editor replied, "You're right. You're being picky. I admit, though, the caption needs corrected." -- "Come with" and similar constructions are very familiar to this native Minnesotan, and, like others, I associate it with the German and Scandinavian two-part (or separable) verbs used by our ancestors. However, contrary to Allan Denchfield, no Minnesotan (not even Garrison Keillor in his most fun-poking moments) would say "what nationality was settled Minnesota with." BTW, my Indianan-Ohioan son laughs at my use of "come with" but will occasionally say "needs washed," despite his expressed rejection of this region's speech. -- Minor notes: "Set out" and "if he would have" are indeed common in Minnesota; on the latter, I don't know if German or the Scandinavian languages allow this alternate subjunctive form. On equivalents of John Baugh's "Home Training," I was about to offer "raised right," but that's from 20 years in southern Indiana and Ohio; in Minnesota, we were "brought up right." -- Finally, Joan L-W is right about students needing "a good dose of 'nonstandard' speech in high places." I have my grad students replicate Trudgill's test of polylectal comprehension (in _On Dialect_) using Appalachian and other forms, and they regularly get "The sort of thing only a foreigner would say" or "Nobody would say this, not even a foreigner" on the first three expressions listed above, except from respondents who have been here a while, who allow, "I'd never say this, but some others might." It makes for good consciousness-raising. --Beverly Olson Flanigan Received: 29-Oct-1994 08:03pm