Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 15:37:10 EDT From: TERRY IRONS Subject: Re: tesol and dialects Hi Ellen, You may not remember me, but I'm that red-haired guy who preceded you at NWAVE last year and who asked you those stupid questions at LAVIS. It looks as though we've both hightailed it out of Georgia. But more to the point of your query. Having taught English as a Second language for a number of years and yet claiming no special expertise in the field, I would suggest that an important way to approach dialect and language variation with your audience is to focus on the concepts of style and register. The latter concept, register, it seems to me can be particularly helpful to get away from any judgments about standard, nonstandard and the politics involved. The rather simple definition, borrowed from Wardhaugh's Intro to Sociolinguistics is that "Registers are sets of vocabulary items associated with discrete occupational or social groups" (1993: 49). The occupational groups context is obvious--lawyers, doctors, linguists, pimps--each have their inner circle jargon. But when applied to the idea of social groups--gangs, rappers, etc.--the utility of the concept widens. SO you could use the idea to get your audience to see that much of this seeming mess of variation and inconsistency makes perfect sense from a register point of view. SOme language is appropriate for a certain register; other is not. The concept of style in relation to dialect and language variation I leave to others to explain. Sincerely, Terry Irons Morehead State University email: t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msuacad.morehead-st.edu Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 17:36:46 CDT From: BADHMIM%ECNUXA.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu Subject: Re: to go with In Chicago's southside Black community, "to go with" is considered distinctly od of Germans, Swedes, etc., it occurs commonly. Mike Miller Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 09:49:46 -0400 From: Cathy Ball Subject: Re: to go with A student at Michigan, whose name I have forgotten, has suggested to me that the related 'come with' is a calque on 'mitkommen' (sp?). -- Cathy Ball (Georgetown) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 10:30:04 EDT From: Robert Kelly Subject: Re: to go with The strange thing about the "come with" usage is that it DOES sound strange, given English's taste for the absolute (= without object) preposition, as in something as old as "Go to, go to!" or what you hear in every grade B movie ever made, "Come on! Let's go." Or where do we come from? (Or, as we say in the taco stand, I'll have mine with.) rk Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 13:32:28 EDT From: Mark Ingram Subject: Re: to go with Cathy, regarding the expression "come with", it does seem very much like the German use of mitkommen. Kommst du mit? would be mean: Are you coming along (with me or with us etc)? I haven't heard this in English before, but find the discussion interesting. Mark Ingram Lexington, Ky. Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 21:45:16 EST From: "Warren A. Brewer" Subject: Ya wanna come with? I first heard this from friends who had spent time in Germany with the US military, and who had had absolutely no contact in the States with German-American communities. I therefore assumed that they had brought it back from Germany as a "Germanism", along with their asinine dog-German jokes (Was ist los? Der Hund is los!). The arguments for _come/go_with_ certainly do have a Germanic origin, but I think it has more to do with GIs than Pennsylvania Dutch. ---Wab. Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 10:01:26 -0500 From: PETER GINGISS Subject: Re: Ya wanna come with? My understanding was the this expression (you wanna come with?) was typical of the Chicago area. I have never tried to substantiate that assertion, though. ___________________________ Peter Gingiss englad[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]jetson.uh.edu Department of English (713) 743-2947 University of Houston Houston, Texas 77204-3012 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 17:36:48 +0200 From: "H.P. Houtzagers" Subject: tu viens avec? Though I'm not a native speaker of English, German or French, the discussion on such constructions as 'you wanna come with?' reminds me of a type of sentence you can hear in colloquial French quite often: 'tu viens avec?', 'le mec que j'ai parle avec' (instead of 'avec qui/lequel'). Does anyone know how widespread this construction is in French, whether there are any limitations to its use and whether it also has some Germanic source? Peter Houtzagers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. H. Peter Houtzagers tel. (0)50-636061/636067 Slavic Department, Groningen University fax (0)50-634900 Oude Kijk in 't Jatstraat 26 e-mail HOUTZAGE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LET.RUG.NL 9742 EK Groningen THE NETHERLANDS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 11:27:28 CDT From: "Donald M. Lance" Subject: Re: Ya wanna come with? I've heard "Ya coming with?" for so long that I thought everyone knew it has Germanic origin. I first became aware of it in the speech of Jewish Americans and assumed it was a Yiddishism. When I was in Germany, Germans who were learning English used it but soon suppressed the final preposition. DMLance Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 12:27:00 CDT From: Joan Houston Hall Subject: come/go with I just checked the DARE citation files to see what the earliest is for the come with construction. It's from 1865 Life of David Crockett (by himself)! There's quite a gap in citations, with the next coming in 1936. But after that there are lots of anecdotal remarks about it, with five from Minnesota, four from Wisconsin (plus those we hear here frequently), three from Pennsylvania, two from western New York, and one each from Illinois, Iowa, and Michigan. Certainly looks regional to me! Joan Hall, DARE Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 15:13:35 -0400 From: Scott R Knitter Subject: Re: tu viens avec? > Though I'm not a native speaker of English, German or French, the > discussion on such constructions as 'you wanna come with?' reminds me > of a type of sentence you can hear in colloquial French quite > often: 'tu viens avec?', 'le mec que j'ai parle avec' (instead of > 'avec qui/lequel'). Does anyone know how widespread this construction > is in French, whether there are any limitations to its use and > whether it also has some Germanic source? > > Peter Houtzagers > German: Gehst du mit?/Gehen Sie mit? The modal auxiliary "wollen" is understood in this construction, as is the volitional modal in English: "Are you going along?" Otherwise it's "Wollen Sie mitgehen?" Scott Knitter East Lansing, Michigan USA Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 15:55:49 -0600 From: "F5JTL...WX3W" Subject: Re: tu viens avec? According to H.P. Houtzagers: > >Though I'm not a native speaker of English, German or French, the >discussion on such constructions as 'you wanna come with?' reminds me >of a type of sentence you can hear in colloquial French quite >often: 'tu viens avec?', 'le mec que j'ai parle avec' (instead of >'avec qui/lequel'). Does anyone know how widespread this construction >is in French, whether there are any limitations to its use and >whether it also has some Germanic source? > >Peter Houtzagers > This construction does exist but is regarded as very poor French. When a kid utters this type of sentence he is told not to use such a construction. You can expect people of very poor background to say 'tu viens avec?` Laurent Thomin University of New Mexico Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 17:20:13 CDT From: BADHMIM%ECNUXA.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu Subject: Re: Ya wanna come with? No, there's nothing odd about it. It occurs not just in Chicago but in all German settlement areas in the US (I didn't say *every*). Mitkommen and mitgehen are obvious sources. And though my German is awful, I come from a German background and have said it all my life. As you might expect, however, my Black students, whose underlying dialect is Southern, think it's illiterate. Mike Miller Chicago State University Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 07:48:31 -0500 From: Natalie Maynor Subject: Bounced Mail Reminder: When including a previous list posting in something you're sending to the list, be sure to edit out all references to ADS-L in the headers. **************************************************************** > Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 08:37:27 -0400 > From: BITNET list server at UGA (1.7f) > Subject: ADS-L: error report from LET.RUG.NL > To: Natalie Maynor > > The enclosed mail file, found in the ADS-L reader and shown under the spoolid > 2411 in the console log, has been identified as a possible delivery error > notice for the following reason: "Sender:", "From:" or "Reply-To:" field > pointing to the list has been found in mail body. > > ----------------------- Message in error (74 lines) ------------------------- > From: "H.P. Houtzagers" > Organization: Faculteit der Letteren, RuG, NL > Date: 7 Oct 93 13:35:19 +0200 > Subject: Re: tu viens avec? > > > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 15:13:35 -0400 > > From: Scott R Knitter > > Subject: Re: tu viens avec? > > > > Though I'm not a native speaker of English, German or French, the > > > discussion on such constructions as 'you wanna come with?' reminds me > > > of a type of sentence you can hear in colloquial French quite > > > often: 'tu viens avec?', 'le mec que j'ai parle avec' (instead of > > > 'avec qui/lequel'). Does anyone know how widespread this construction > > > is in French, whether there are any limitations to its use and > > > whether it also has some Germanic source? > > > > > > Peter Houtzagers > > > > > German: Gehst du mit?/Gehen Sie mit? > > > > The modal auxiliary "wollen" is understood in this construction, as is the > > volitional modal in English: "Are you going along?" Otherwise it's "Wollen > > Sie mitgehen?" > > > > Scott Knitter East Lansing, Michigan USA > > If you use the auxiliary "vouloir" in this sentence, you still get an > 'ungrammatical' sentence: 'tu veux venir avec?'. > I think the explanation for the existence of such constructions in > German is not that difficult. In German the entity "mit" is not a > preposition in sentences like these, but a 'separable' prefix. You > can see that even more clearly in Dutch, where the prefix has a > different form from the corresponding preposition: in Dutch the > preposition "with" is "met", but the prefix in verbs of the German > type "mitgehen" is "mee-". "Mitgehen" is "meegaan", "gehst du > mit?" is "ga je mee?". I think it is logical that a prefixed verb has > less 'need' for a complement than a verb with a preposition, like 'go > with', or 'venir avec'. Both in French and English you need some noun > or pronoun after the preposition, simply because a preposition is a > thing that stands before another thing. > What interests me more is that this construction is apparently an > 'attractive' item to take over into other languages, like French or > English. > > Peter Houtzagers > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. H. Peter Houtzagers tel. (0)50-636061/636067 > Slavic Department, Groningen University fax (0)50-634900 > Oude Kijk in 't Jatstraat 26 e-mail HOUTZAGE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LET.RUG.NL > 9742 EK Groningen > THE NETHERLANDS > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 09:26:19 -0500 From: Joan Livingston-Webber Subject: Re: tu viens avec? "come with"--whether in some languages and places associated with "poor background"--is clearly also a regional variant in the US, perhaps (probably) related to patterns of Germanic speakers' settlement. But, you see, when my children learn "come with" as part of their native dialect, and they have parents educated in college, attended private (parochial) schools in the early grades, etc., I personnally take exception to saying: there seems to be something to this > construction that makes it attractive for people of 'poor background' > to use it Next thing you know, negative concord will be "illogical" and and the absence of copula the same as the lack of the notion of equivalence or class membership. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. H. Peter Houtzagers tel. (0)50-636061/636067 > Slavic Department, Groningen University fax (0)50-634900 > Oude Kijk in 't Jatstraat 26 e-mail HOUTZAGE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LET.RUG.NL > 9742 EK Groningen > THE NETHERLANDS > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joan Livingston-Webber webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 15:29:18 +0200 From: "H.P. Houtzagers" Subject: Re: tu viens avec? > > Though I'm not a native speaker of English, German or French, the > > discussion on such constructions as 'you wanna come with?' reminds me > > of a type of sentence you can hear in colloquial French quite > > often: 'tu viens avec?', 'le mec que j'ai parle avec' (instead of > > 'avec qui/lequel'). Does anyone know how widespread this construction > > is in French, whether there are any limitations to its use and > > whether it also has some Germanic source? > > > > Peter Houtzagers > > > German: Gehst du mit?/Gehen Sie mit? > > The modal auxiliary "wollen" is understood in this construction, as is the > volitional modal in English: "Are you going along?" Otherwise it's "Wollen > Sie mitgehen?" > > Scott Knitter East Lansing, Michigan USA If you use the auxiliary "vouloir" in this sentence, you still get an 'ungrammatical' sentence: 'tu veux venir avec?'. I think the explanation for the existence of this construction in German is not that difficult. In German the entity "mit" is not a preposition in sentences like these, but a 'separable' prefix. You can see that even more clearly in Dutch, where the prefix has a different form from the corresponding preposition: in Dutch the preposition "with" is "met", but the prefix in verbs of the German type "mitgehen" is "mee-". "Mitgehen" is "meegaan", "gehst du mit?" is "ga je mee?". It is obvious that a prefixed verb has less need for a complement than a verb with a preposition, like 'go with', or 'venir avec'. Both in French and English you need some noun or pronoun after the preposition, simply because a preposition is a thing that stands before another thing. What I find interesting is that this construction is apparently an 'attractive' item to take over into other languages, like French or English. Peter Houtzagers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. H. Peter Houtzagers tel. (0)50-636061/636067 Slavic Department, Groningen University fax (0)50-634900 Oude Kijk in 't Jatstraat 26 e-mail HOUTZAGE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LET.RUG.NL 9742 EK Groningen THE NETHERLANDS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 15:47:13 +0200 From: "H.P. Houtzagers" Subject: Re: tu viens avec? Joan Livingston-Webber wrote: > "come with"--whether in some languages and places associated with > "poor background"--is clearly also a regional variant in the US, perhaps > (probably) related to patterns of Germanic speakers' settlement. > > But, you see, when my children learn "come with" as part of their > native dialect, and they have parents educated in college, attended > private (parochial) schools in the early grades, etc., I personnally > take exception to saying: > > there seems to be something to this > > construction that makes it attractive for people of 'poor background' > > to use it > > Next thing you know, negative concord will be "illogical" and > and the absence of copula the same as the lack of the notion of > equivalence or class membership. I agree. As you may remember, the formulation 'poor background' isn't mine and I thought I made it clear that I objected to it, but perhaps I didn't make it clear enough. I think that in French (I never heard this construction in English, I must admit) you should rather call it a colloquialism or young peoples' slang than something that testifies that the speaker has a 'poor background', whatever that may be. Peter Houtzagers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. H. Peter Houtzagers tel. (0)50-636061/636067 Slavic Department, Groningen University fax (0)50-634900 Oude Kijk in 't Jatstraat 26 e-mail HOUTZAGE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LET.RUG.NL 9742 EK Groningen THE NETHERLANDS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 09:09:49 +0200 From: "H.P. Houtzagers" Subject: Re: tu viens avec? > According to H.P. Houtzagers: > > > >Though I'm not a native speaker of English, German or French, the > >discussion on such constructions as 'you wanna come with?' reminds me > >of a type of sentence you can hear in colloquial French quite > >often: 'tu viens avec?', 'le mec que j'ai parle avec' (instead of > >'avec qui/lequel'). Does anyone know how widespread this construction > >is in French, whether there are any limitations to its use and > >whether it also has some Germanic source? > > > >Peter Houtzagers > > > This construction does exist but is regarded as very poor French. When a > kid utters this type of sentence he is told not to use such a > construction. You can expect people of very poor background to say 'tu > viens avec?` > > Laurent Thomin > University of New Mexico It is very well possible that 'tu viens avec' is regarded poor French, kids' language or language of people of 'very poor background', but all that doesn't mean that it doesn't call for an explanation. On the contrary, there seems to be something to this construction that makes it attractive for people of 'poor background' to use it and that, I think, is interesting. By the way, I think many of the things that are discussed on this list are things that occur in the speech of people of 'poor background', but that's only natural for a dialectologists' list, isn't it? Peter Houtzagers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. H. Peter Houtzagers tel. (0)50-636061/636067 Slavic Department, Groningen University fax (0)50-634900 Oude Kijk in 't Jatstraat 26 e-mail HOUTZAGE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LET.RUG.NL 9742 EK Groningen THE NETHERLANDS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 10:23:20 -0500 From: Joan Livingston-Webber Subject: Re: tu viens avec? > I agree. As you may remember, the formulation 'poor background' isn't > mine and I thought I made it clear that I objected to it, but perhaps > I didn't make it clear enough. I think that in French (I never > heard this construction in English, I must admit) you should rather > call it a colloquialism or young peoples' slang than something that > testifies that the speaker has a 'poor background', whatever that may > be. > > Peter Houtzagers > I apologize for misdirecting my sputtering flame. That's what I get for letting my mail pile up so much that I skimmed rather quickly through, obviously, too much of the "come with" discussion. > (Of course, now the remark about what dialectologists study makes its full ironic sense!) -- Joan Livingston-Webber webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 10:44:20 -0500 From: Joan Livingston-Webber Subject: Re: tu viens avec? Actually, I find I'm not getting mail in the same order as, apparently, some others. Having done my minor flame to the wrong person and already had a response from him, I have just recieved in my mailbox the message which, had I read it first, I would have known better. (Okay--first draft syntax there). My apology stands, but I feel a little less responsible. -- Joan Livingston-Webber webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 17:34:14 +0200 From: "H.P. Houtzagers" Subject: omnipotency Joan, what do you mean with the omnipotency stuff? Is this something all Americans understand? Peter Houtzagers > Actually, I find I'm not getting mail in the same order as, > apparently, some others. Having done my minor flame to the > wrong person and already had a response from him, I have just > recieved in my mailbox the message which, had I read it > first, I would have known better. (Okay--first draft syntax > there). My apology stands, but I feel a little less responsible. > -- > Joan Livingston-Webber webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu > "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. H. Peter Houtzagers tel. (0)50-636061/636067 Slavic Department, Groningen University fax (0)50-634900 Oude Kijk in 't Jatstraat 26 e-mail HOUTZAGE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LET.RUG.NL 9742 EK Groningen THE NETHERLANDS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 13:05:05 +22305606 From: "Ellen Johnson Faq. Filosofia y Hdes." Subject: poor background I don't necessarily see anything wrong with using the phrase 'people of a poor background' to describe the distribution of a linguistic feature. Sociolinguists have documented numerous cases of the relationship between lg. constructions and the speech of the 'working class'. While I myself use the term 'working class', I still consider it something of a euphemism and just as often use 'lower class'. Not that I count people who belong to this class as inferior humans, but there is a symmetry between the terms upper class-middle class-lower class that is not there for upper class-middle class-working class. Different researchers have different ways of assigning people to such classes, but one obvious measure is that of income. If these lg. features weren't associated with poor people they wouldn't be considered nonstandard and their history might be different. Apparently, the 'go with' construction has a different social distribution in France than in the US. Ellen Johnson ejohnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]abello.seci.uchile.cl Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 14:06:00 CDT From: Beth Lee Simon Subject: go/come with, socioeconomic background I did a little informal net-casting, and have data from Utah, Idaho and eastern Washington that shows "want to come/go with" as common or "std" colloquial for some educated speakers. Also, there is use in the U.P of Michigan. (was that mentioned?) beth simon blsimon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 10:02:19 -0500 From: Joan Livingston-Webber Subject: "chin music" In asking around, I find that "chin music" refers to a pitcher's throwing at the batter in order to back him off from home base. But I have a student who's encountered what seems to be a very different sense. My student is working with letters written in the late 1890's by a young woman who had joined her husband at a mining camp in Colorado and was writing home to Virginia. She says that her husband was in activities that took only "chin music." In the context, these are activites that require little if any outlay of cash. I've already invented two great sources for the term, one relates it to fiddle music and presumes every mining town had a drunk fiddler who'd play for a drink; the other relates chin to Chinese, railroad slave laborers working for subsistence. Of course, she more likely brought the phrase with her from VA since she doesn't pause in her letter to explain it. Both my student and I would be happier if we knew something true about "chin music": where it comes from, who said it, how the same phrase got into baseball (or how the same phrase came independently to baseball), etc. My student's job is to check DARE. My job is to post the question here. Thanks. -- Joan Livingston-Webber webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 11:11:23 EDT From: Robert Kelly Subject: Re: "chin music" The phrase I've heard, but only in a context that makes good sense of the Colorado letters (though not of Chinese, etc.): namely, chin music = talking, pyjaw, palaver. The music we make with our mandibles. So needing only chin music means needing only easy work, talking, talking it over, or so easy you can do it while gossiping. I've heard this usage all my life, but rarely, in downstate New York and NYC. The baseball usage seems a deliberate borrowing to add commentary-color to the expressive-enough "brush-off pitch." rk Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:04:37 GMT From: Michael Everson Subject: List of Language Lists, Version 1.3 Computer Bulletin Boards for Individual Languages, or, The List of Language Lists Prepared by Bernard Comrie & Michael Everson Version 1.3 (12 October 1993) This file lists bulletin boards devoted primarily to the linguistic study of individual languages and groups of languages (though a couple of others, in particular lists for language learners, have been included as well). 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Kovacs (dkovacs[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kentvm.bitnet or [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kentvm.kent.edu) and is available by sending the message get acadlist readme to one of the following addresses: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kentvm.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kentvm.kent.edu The materials you will receive include instructions for getting more detailed descriptions of particular sets of electronic conferences (e.g. LANGUAGES, LINGUISTICS). Those interested in contacting speakers of languages (not necessarily linguists) should also consider contacting the appropriate soc.culture list (e.g. soc.culture.polish). The order of the lists follows somewhat the Library of Congress Subject headings; no attempt at bibliographical perfection has been attempted. This list is available by anonymous ftp from colossus[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.ucd.ie (137.43.50.59) in /everson. Please send corrections and emendations to this list to: Bernard Comrie (h00917[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]jpnac.bitnet)/(h00917[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sinet.ad.jp) and Michael Everson (everson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.ucd.ie) %%%%%%%%%% Language(s): Sign languages; P117, E98.55, HV2474-HV2476 Sign languages (SLLING-L) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yalevm.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yalevm.cis.yale.edu For questions, contact: Dave.Moskovitz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vuw.ac.nz (Dave Moskovitz) A previous incarnation of this was ASLING-L. ========== Language(s): Celtic, Goidelic; PB1201-PB1847 Irish, Scottish, & Manx Gaelic (GAELIC-L) (not restricted to linguistics; also for learners; contributions in a Gaelic language preferred) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.ucd.ie listserv%irlearn.ucd.ie[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uk.ac.earn-relay For questions, contact: mgunn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.ucd.ie (Marion Gunn) caoimhin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]smo.ac.uk (Caoimhi/n O/ Donnai/le) lss203[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cs.napier.ac.uk (Craig Cockburn) ========== Language(s): Celtic, Brittonic; PB2101-PB2849 Welsh (also Breton, Cornish) (WELSH-L) (not restricted to linguistics; also for learners; contributions in a Brittonic language preferred) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.ucd.ie listserv%irlearn.ucd.ie[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uk.ac.earn-relay For questions, contact: everson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]irlearn.ucd.ie (Michael Everson) briony[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cstr.ed.ac.uk (Briony Williams) ========== Language(s): Greek, Latin; PA201-PA1179, PA2001-PA2995 Classical Greek & Classical Latin (CLASSICS) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uwavm.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uwavm.u.washington.edu For questions, contact: lwright[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uwavm.bitnet (Linda Wright) lwright[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uwavm.u.washington.edu ========== Language(s): Greek, New Testament; PA1001-PA1179 Greek (NT-GREEK) (New Testament Greek language & literature) Listserver: nt-greek-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]virginia.edu ntgrkreq[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]virginia.bitnet For questions, contact: djm5g[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Virginia.edu (David John Marotta) ========== Language(s): Greek, modern; PA1001-PA1179 Greek (HELLAS) (Modern Greek language & literature) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]auvm.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]auvm.auvm.edu For questions, contact: sliolis[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]auvm.bitnet (Spiros Liolis) kostas[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bklyn.bitnet (Kostas Piperis) alex[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]auvm.bitnet (Alexandros Coulombis) ========== Language(s): Greek, modern; PA1001-PA1179 Greek (ELLHNIKA) (Modern Greek linguistics & literature; typesetting of Ancient Greek) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dhdurz1.bitnet) For questions, contact: yannis[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]frcitl81.bitnet (Yannis Haralambous) (NB: 'el eight one') ========== Language(s): Latin, also Modern; PA2801-PA2915 Latin & Neo-Latin (LATIN-L) Listserver: latin-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]psuvm.psu.edu latin-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]psuvm.bitnet For questions, contact: bcj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]psuvm.bitnet bcj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]psuvm.psu.edu ========== Language(s): Romanian PC601-PC799 Romanian (ROMANIANS) (News & discussion in Romanian) Listserver: mihai[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sep.stanford.edu For questions, contact: mihai[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sep.stanford.edu (Alexander Mihai Popovici) ========== Language(s): Italian; PC1001-PC1977 Italian (LANGIT) (Discussione Centri Linguistici Italiani) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]icineca.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]icineca.cineca.it For questions, contact: dolci[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]iveuncc.bitnet (Roberto Dolci) ========== Language(s): French; PC2001-PC3761 French (CAUSERIE) (any topic, but must be in French) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uquebec.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uquebec.ca For questions, contact: hamelpj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inrs-urb.uquebec.ca (Pierre J. Hamel) ========== Language(s): French; PC2001-PC3761 French (FROGTALK) ((not restricted to linguistics; also for learners; contributions in French preferred) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bitnic.bitnet For questions, contact: frog[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bitnic (Stephane Piot) ========== Language(s): Catalan; PC3801-PC3899 Catalan (CATALA) (Forum de discussio per a catalanoparlants; language & culture) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ebcesca1.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]puigmal.cesca.es For questions, contact: serveman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ebcesca1.bitnet (Caterina Parals) (Older list CATALUNYA is apparently no longer operating.) ========== Language(s): Spanish; PC4001-PC4977 Spanish (I-REDES) (Spanish language wide area networks; contributions in Spanish) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utfsm.bitnet For questions, contact: hlobos[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utfsm.bitnet (Hernan Lobos Mitzio) ========== Language(s): Medieval Catalan, Spanish, Ladino, Galician; PC3801-PC3899, PC4001-PC4977, PC4813, PC5411-PC5414 Medieval Iberian (MEDIBER) (not just linguistics) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]merle.acns.nwu.edu For questions, contact: j-dagenais[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nwu.edu (John Dagenais) ========== Language(s): Ladino; PC4813 Sephardic studies (SEFARAD) (Sefarad, a Sephardic monthly newslet ter in English & Judeo-Spanish) Listserver: listserver[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]israel.nysernet.org listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]israel.nysernet.org For questions, contact: mskerem[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pluto.cc.huji.ac.il (Yitzchak Kerem) warren[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein) goodblat[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]israel.nysernet.org (Avrum Goodblatt) ========== Language(s): Portuguese PC5001-PC5498 Portuguese (LETRAS-L) (Discussion of literature & applied linguistics, in Portuguese) Listserver: mailserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]brfapesp.bitnet For questions, contact: ???[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]??? (???) ========== Language(s): Germanic; PD1-PD71 approx. Germanic languages, older (to about 1500) (GERLINGL) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiucvmd.bitnet For questions, contact: marchand[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim Marchand) marchand[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiucmvd.bitnet obenaus[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiucmvd.bitnet (Gerhard Obenaus) obenaus[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Antonsen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Elmer Antonsen) ========== Language(s): Scandinavian; PD1501-PD5929 Nordic languages (DISC-NORDIC) (not just linguistics) Listserver: disc-nordic-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.unet.umn.edu For questions, contact: shack001[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]staff.tc.umn.edu (Jole Shackleford) uenjc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]terra.oscs.montana.edu (Jerome Coffey) Note also Project Runeberg for archiving Nordic texts; information from: aronsson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]lysator.liu.se ========== Language(s): Old English; PE101-PE299 Old English (ANSAX-L) (Old English language discussion) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]wvnvm.bitnet For questions, contact: u47c2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]wvnvm.bitnet (Patrick W. Conner) ========== Language(s): Middle English; PE501-PE685 Middle English (CHAUCER) (Middle English language & culture) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unl.edu For questions, contact: tbestul[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]crcvms.unl.edu (Tom Bestul) tbestul[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unlvax1 ========== Language(s): English; PE1001-PE3729 Teaching English as a Second Language (TESL-L) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.bitnet For questions, contact: abthc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.bitnet (Anthea Tillyer) ========== Language(s): English; PE1001-PE3729 English (WORDS-L) (English language discussion; not just linguistics) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu For questions, contact: maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Ra.MsState.EDU (Natalie Maynor) This list will be deleted from Version 1.4 because it really isn't about what it says it's about. There is extremely high volume on this list and, in the words of the list itself: "The discussions on WORDS-L are wide-ranging. Although the list began as a forum for discussion of the English language, it has evolved through the years into a discussion of anything the subscribers want to discuss. If you are looking for a single-topic list, you will probably not be happy here." ========== Language(s): English--United States; PE2801-PE3102 American dialects (ADS-L) American Dialect Society list Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu For questions, contact: maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msstate (Bernard Chien Perro) maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu (Natalie Maynor) ========== Language(s): Dutch; PF1-PF979 Dutch (NEDER-L) (Distributielijst voor de neerlandistiek; intended for teachers of Dutch) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nic.surfnet.nl For questions, contact: u216013[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hnykun11.bitnet (Ben Salemans) ========== Language(s): Slavic PG1-PG9198 Slavic & East European languages (SEELANGS) (languages & literatures) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.cuny.edu For questions, contact: ahrjj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.bitnet (Alex Rudd) bigcu[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.bitnet (Bill Gruber) rtwlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.bitnet (Robert Whittaker) ========== Language(s): Macedonian PG1161-PG1164 Macedonian (MAK-NEWS) (News digest in Macedonian & English; there is also a general discussion list in Macedonian called MAK-TALK & an ftp service: ftp.uts.edu.au /pub/makedon) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uts.edu.au For questions, contact: shopov[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tartarus.ccsd.uts.edu.au (Sacha Shopov) sk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) ========== Language(s): Serbo-Croatian; PG1224-PG1399 Serbo-Croatian (VIZANTIJA) (News & discussion for Serbs) Listserver: dimitrije[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]buenga.bu.edu (Dimitrije Stamenovic) For questions, contact: dimitrije[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]buenga.bu.edu (Dimitrije Stamenovic) ========== Language(s): Slovenian PG1801-PG1899 Slovene (PISMA-BRALCEV) (Discussion in Slovene) Listserver: pisma-bralcev[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ijs.si pisma.bralcev[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uni-lj.si For questions, contact: andrej.brodnik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ijs.si (Andrej Brodnik) abrodnik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]watdragon.uwaterloo.ca andrej.brodnik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uni-lj.si ========== Language(s): Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian PG1801-PG1899, PG1224-PG1399 Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian (OGLASNA-DESKA) (Discussion in Slovene & Serbo-Croatian) Listserver: oglasna-deska[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ijs.si oglasna-deska[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uni.lj.si For questions, contact: dean[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]eta.pha.jhu.edu (Dean Mozetic) marjeta[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]midget.towson.edu (Marjeta Cedilnik) ========== Language(s): Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian PG1801-PG1899, PG1224-PG1399 Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian (BOSNET) (News & discussion about Bosnia & Hercegovina, in English & "Bosnian") Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]math.gmu.edu For questions, contact: hozo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]math.lsa.umich.edu (Iztok Hozo) ========== Language(s): Russian PG2001-PG2847 Russian (RUSSIAN) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]asuacad.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]asuvm.inre.asu.edu For questions, contact: ???[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]??? This list still exists, sort of. The RUSSIAN bulletin board at listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]asuacad still has all the old files from the discussion group, but the group moderator, Andy Wollert (ispajw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]asuacad) is no longer associated with Arizona State University that houses the list server. Thus no new discussion. The list is "held". If anyone is interested in reviving this list, contact postmaster[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]asuacad. ========== Language(s): Russian PG2001-PG2847 Russian (RUSTEX-L) Russian TeX & Cyrillic text processing list Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ubvm.bitnet For questions, contact: dmv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvms1 (Dimitri Vulis) ========== Language(s): Czech PG4601-PG4771 Czech (MUTEX) (Masaryk University TeX text processing issues) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]csbrmu11.bitnet For questions, contact: sojka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]csbrmu11.bitnet (Petr Sojka) ========== Language(s): Slovak PG5201-PG5399 Slovak (SLOVAK-L) (News & discussion in English & Slovak) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ubvm.bitnet For questions, contact: gfrajkor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccs.carleton.ca (Jan George Frajkor) ========== Language(s): Polish PG6001-PG6790 Polish (POLAND-L) (News & discussion in Polish & English. Includes newsletters "Sajac" (humor) & "Dyrdymalki" (weekly news)) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ubvm.bitnet For questions, contact: michal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gs58.sp.cs.cmu.edu (Michal Prussak) wowoc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acs.ucalgary.ca (Witold Owoc) ========== Language(s): Estonian PH601-PH629 Estonian (E-LIST) (News & discussion in Estonian) Listserver: vilo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cs.helsinki.fi For questions, contact: vilo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cs.helsinki.fi (Jaak Vilo) ========== Language(s): Hungarian PH2001-PH2800 Hungarian (HUEARN-L) (Discussion of the Hungarian EARN, in Hungarian) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]huearn.bitnet For questions, contact: ib001ara[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]huearn.bitnet (Sandor Aranyi) It would be nice to get hold of a more general discussion list in Hungarian. ========== Language(s): Berber; PJ2340-PJ2349, PJ2369-PJ2399 Amazigh (AMAZIGH-NET) (Discussion of Amazigh (Berber) language & culture, in Tamazight, English, or French) Listserver: amazigh-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ensisun.imag.fr For questions, contact: suescun[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]esmeralda.imag.fr (Rodolphe Suescun) djb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]darwin.bu.edu (Djamal Bouzida) ========== Language(s): Hebrew; PJ4501-PJ4937 Hebrew (HEBREW-L) (Jewish & Near Eastern Studies) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uminn1.bitnet For questions, contact: maic[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uminn1.bitnet (Tzvee Zahavy) Apparently this list has merged with HEBLANG. ========== Language(s): Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic; PJ4501-PJ4937, PJ6001-PJ7144, PJ5201-PJ5329 Hebrew TeX list (IVRITEX) (About Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic text processing) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]taunivm.bitnet For questions, contact: a79[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]taunivm.bitnet (David Sitman) dhosek[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hmcvax.bitnet (Don Hosek) ========== Language(s): Hebrew PJ4501-PJ4937; PJ4901-PJ4950 Modern & Biblical Hebrew (HEBLANG) (Hebrew grammar & etymology; "includes Biblical, Medieval, Tiberian & Modern as well as dialects/forms such as Aramaic that dropped off/on along the way.") Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]israel.nysernet org For questions, contact: ajax[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]judy.indstate.edu (Benjamin C. Kite) ========== Language(s): Hebrew, Aramaic; PJ4501-PJ4937, PJ5201-PJ5329 Biblical Hebrew (OT-HEBREW & OTHEBREW) (Old Testament studies; in English, Hebrew & Aramaic) Listserver: ot-hebrew-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]virginia.edu othebreq[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]virginia.bitnet For questions, contact: djm5g[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]virginia.edu (David John Marotta) ========== Language(s): Yiddish; PJ5111-PJ5119 Yiddish (MENDELE) (Yiddish literature & language; not just linguistics) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yalevm.ycc.yale.edu listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yalevm.bitnet For questions, contact: nmiller[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dot.trincoll.edu (Norman (Noyekh) Miller) There was also an older Yiddish list, now inactive. For back issues contact: dave[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]lsuc.on.ca (David Sherman) ========== Language(s): Arabic PJ6001-PJ7144 Arabic (ARABIC-L) (linguistics & language teaching) Listserver: mailserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]byu.edu For questions, contact: parkinsond[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yvax.byu.edu (Dilworth B. Parkinson) belnapk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yvax.byu.edu (Kirk Belnap) ========== Language(s): Arabic; PJ6001-PJ7144 Arabic (ITISALAT) (Arabic Language & Technology) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvm.bitnet For questions, contact: roochnik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.bitnet (Paul Roochnik) ========== Language(s): Arabic, Farsi, Urdu; PJ6001-PJ7144, PK6201-PK6399, PK1975-PK1987 Arabic script (READER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TASHA.POLY.EDU) (Discussion in English of Arabic script (Arabic, Farsi, Urdu, etc.) on computers) Listserver: alex[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dt.uh.edu (Alex Khalil) For questions, contact: medawar[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]poly.edu (Bassem Medawar) ========== Language(s): Sanskrit, Pali; PK401-PK976, PK1001-PK1095 Sanskrit (INDOLOGY) (Sanskrit & adjacent topics) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]liverpool.ac.uk For questions, contact: ucgadkw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ucl.ac.uk (Dominik Wujastyk) qq43[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff) ========== Language(s): Armenian; PK8001-PK8454 Armenian (HAYASTAN) (not restricted to linguistics; contributions in English & Armenian) Listserver: hayastan-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]think.com hayastan-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]usc.edu For questions, contact: bmb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]think.com (Bruce Boghosian) ========== Language(s): Armenian; PK8001-PK8454 Association Internationale des Etudes Armeniennes (AIEA) (not restricted to linguistics; contributions in English, French & Armenian) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gomidas.mi.org For questions, contact: ???[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gomidas.mi.org (???) ========== Language(s): Armenian; PK8001-PK8454 Armenian (HYE-FONT) (About Armenian fonts standards & other text processing issues) Listserver: archive-server[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sain.org Subscribe command is JOIN not SUBSCRIBE. For questions, contact: system[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sain.org (Roupen Nahabedian) ========== Language(s): Caucasian; PK9001-PK9201 Caucasian studies discussion list. (CAUCNET) Informal list for scholars interested in the peoples, cultures, and languages of the Caucasus. Not limited to languages. Listserver: hia5[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]midway.uchicago.edu There is no listserv, submissions are forwarded to the owner who circulates them For questions, contact: hia5[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]midway.uchicago.edu (Howard I. Aronson) ========== Language(s): Turkish; PL101-PL199 Turkish, Natural Language Processing (BILDIL) (Discussion group on natural language processing studies on Turkish language, e.g. computer-based analysis or synthesis of Turkish, application of linguistic theories to the language, linguistic tools & their applicability, implications/adaptation of current computational linguistic models to Turkish. In Turkish, English or any other language that may find an audience in the group.) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]trmetu.bitnet For questions, contact: bozsahin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]trmetu (Cem Bozsahin) ko[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]trbilun (Kemal Oflazer) ========== Language(s): Turkish PL101-PL199 Turkish (TURKCE-L) (Bilim Dili Olarak TURKCE) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tritu.bitnet For questions, contact: ???[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tritu.bitnet (???) ========== Language(s): Japanese; PL501-PL700 Japanese (NIHONGO) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mitvma.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.cuny.edu listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mitvma.mit.edu For questions, contact: lacure[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utkvx1.bitnet (Jon W LaCure) (List owner) ihkj100[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]indycms.bitnet (Melody Johnson) (List editor) ========== Language(s): Korean PL901-PL949 Korean (HANGUL) (Korean word processing issues; TeX, encoding, fonts, software, file transfer) Listserver: hangul-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cair.kaist.ac.kr For questions, contact: ujsung[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cair.kaist.ac.kr (UnJae Sung) ujsung[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cs.kaist.ac.kr ========== Language(s): Chinese; PL1001-PL2244 Chinese (CHINESE) Listserver: chinese-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kenyon.edu For questions, contact: bai[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kenyon.edu (Jianhua Bai) ========== Language(s): Chinese; PL1001-PL2244 Chinese (CCNET-L) (devoted to use of Chinese on computers) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.uga.edu listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.bitnet For questions, contact: ccnet-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] uga.uga.edu ccnet-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.bitnet ========== Language(s): Chinese PL1001-PL2244 Chinese poetics (CHPOEM-L) (Poem exchange & discussion; in English & encoded Chinese (in HZ, uuencoded GB & uuencoded Big5) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ubvm.bitnet For questions, contact: v118raqa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ubvms.bitnet (XiaoFei Wang) ========== Language(s): Tibeto-Burman, Tai-Kadai, Austroasiatic, Austronesian, Mien-Yao; PL3551-PL4001, PL4111-PL4251, PL4281-PL4587, PL5021-PL6571, PL8801-PL8804 South East Asian Languages & Linguistics (NO NAME YET) Listserver: ???[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]??? For questions, contact: brian[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipied.tu.ac.th (Brian Migliazza) This list is under construction. ========== Language(s): Vietnamese PL4371-PL4379 Vietnamese (VIETNET) (The Bitnet feed for the soc.culture.vietnamese newsgroup on USENET; in Vietnamese & English. Very active) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uscvm.bitnet For questions, contact: hho[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]scf.usc.edu (Hung P. Ho, Jr.) anh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]media.mit.edu (Viet Anh) ========== Language(s): Tamil; PL4751-PL4759 Tamil (TAMIL-L) (Tamil studies; not limited to linguistics) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dhdurz1.bitnet For questions, contact: d87[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Thomas Malten) ========== Language(s): Telugu; PL4771-PL4779 Telugu (TELUGU) (Telugu language & culture; not just linguistics) Listserver: telugu[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ndsuvm1.bitnet telugu[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vm1.nodak.edu For questions, contact: kvrao[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]andy.bgsu.edu (K.V. Rao) seetam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ece7.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma) ========== Language(s): Indonesian PL5071-PL5079 Bahasa Indonesia (IS-LAM) (The Islamic Network (ISNET); news & discussion in Indonesian & English) Listserver: is-ad[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu For questions, contact: ???[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu (???) ========== Language(s): Swahili; PL8701-PL8704 Swahili (SWAHILI-L) (any topic, but must be in Swahili) Listserver: swahili-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu swahili-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]wiscmacc.bitnet For questions, contact: kuntz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu kuntz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]wiscmacc.bitnet (Patricia S. Kuntz) ========== Language(s): Indian, Australian, etc.; PM1-PM7356, PL7001-PL7101 Aboriginal Peoples, Languages of (NAT-LANG) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tamvm1.bitnet listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tamvm1.tamu.edu For questions, contact: gst[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) ========== Language(s): Iroquoian; PM1381-PM1384 Iroquoian (IROQUOIS) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vm.utcs.utoronto.ca listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utoronto.bitnet For questions, contact: cdyck[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epas.utoronto.ca (Carrie Dyck) ========== Language(s): Aztec; PM4061-PM40697 Nahuatl (NAHUAT-L) (Aztec language & culture, in English & Spanish. Postings in Nahuatl encouraged.) Listserver: nahuat-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]faucc.fau.edu nahuat-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fauvaxf.bitnet For questions, contact: schwallr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acc.fau.edu (J. F. Schwaller) schwallr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fauvaxf.bitnet kennedy[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acc.fau.edu (W. J. Kennedy) kennedy[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fauvaxf.bitnet ========== Language(s): Andean? PM5716 Andean (ANDEAN NETWORK) (not just linguistics; information incomplete; this list does not seem to be active at present as the list owner is in Bolivia until December 1993.) Listserver: ???[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]??? For questions, contact: solomon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Tom Solomon) ========== Language(s): Artificial languages; PM8001-PM9021 Constructed languages (CONLANG) (discussion of Lojban & Loglan, as well as other artificial languages (Esperanto & Klingon have been mentioned)) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]diku.dk For questions, contact: conlang[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]diku.dk ========== Language(s): Esperanto; PM8201-PM8298 Esperanto (ESPER-L) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]trearn.bitnet listserv%trearn.bitnet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cunyvm.cuny.edu For questions, contact: esper-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]trearn.bitnet ========== Language(s): Esperanto; PM8201-PM8298 Esperanto (ESPERANTO) Listserver: esperanto-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]rand.org For questions, contact: esperanto[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]rand.org (Mike Urban) ========== Language(s): Artificial languages; PM8145 Klingon (not restricted to linguistics; also for learners; contributions in the Klingon language encouraged; this is quite an active list) Listserver: tlhIngan-Hol-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]village.boston.ma.us (apparently this is case-sensitive) For questions, contact: tlhIngan-Hol[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]village.boston.ma.us (apparently this is case-sensitive) ========== Language(s): Artifical languages; PM8590 (= Loglan) Lojban (LOJBAN) (Discussion of the constructed human language "Lojban--A Realization of Loglan" & for informing the electronic community about logical languages in general.) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu For questions, contact: lojban-list-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]snark.thyrsus.com ========== Language(s): Artifical languages; PM8590 Loglan (LOGLANISTS) (Discussion of the constructed human language Loglan, maintained by The Loglan Institute Inc) Listserver: listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ucsd.edu For questions, contact: loglanists[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ucsd.edu ========== Language(s): Tolkien; PR6039 Tolkien, languages in works of J.R.R. (TOLKLANG) (includes Quenya, Qenya, Sindarin, Sindarin, Nandorin, Wood-Elven, Telerin, Eldarissa, Goldogrin, Khuzdul, Adunaid, Rohirric, Wose-speech, Arctic, Black Speech, Westron (Common Speech), as well as Old English, Welsh, Norse, Finnish, etc.) Listserver: tolklang-request=server[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dcs.ed.ac.uk For questions, contact: jcb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dcs.ed.ac.uk (Julian Bradfield) %%%%%%%%%% Computer Bulletin Boards for Individual Languages or, The List of Language Lists Prepared by Bernard Comrie & Michael Everson Version 1.3 (12 October 1993) ========== Michael Everson School of Architecture, UCD; Richview, Clonskeagh; Dublin 14; E/ire Phone: +353 1 706-2745 Fax: +353 1 283-8908 Home: +353 1 478-2597 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 15:09:01 -0230 From: "Philip Hiscock, MUN Folklore & Language Archive" Subject: Re: "chin music" Here in Newfoundland "chin music" (aka "gob music") refers to music performed by voice but without words. It's usually done as an accompaniment to a step dancer or, rarely, a group of dancers. THe music, something like - I suppose - scat music of black Americans, is done quite fast and quite loud. Although I said it is wordless, sometimes there are almost nonsensical words put to it: Dirty shorts and ties dirty rings around their eyes, down the street as thick as flies, dirty old Torbaymen. Or Dum de diddley, die de diddley dum de diddley, up the pond! and the like. Chin music has no instrumental accompaniment. I can see how the meaning of "anything free or very cheap" can derive from this meaning, but perhaps it worked in the opposite direction. Philip Hiscock MUN Folklore & Language Archive Memorial U of Newfoundland philiph[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kean.ucs.mun.ca Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 12:05:29 -0700 From: "Thomas L. Clark" Subject: Re: "chin music" Your message dated: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 10:02:19 -0500 -------- > In asking around, I find that "chin music" refers to a > pitcher's throwing at the batter in order to back him off > from home base. > -- > Joan Livingston-Webber webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu > "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG Joan, While doing fieldwork in Ohio, I encountered "chin music" often in rural settings. It invariably referred to gossiping with neighbors, or "running off at the mouth." I don't think there was much drunk-fiddler or Asian contact. ------------------------------------------------------- Thomas L. Clark English Department UNLV 89154 tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 10:11:36 -0400 From: "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783" RE: 3 queries Students in my "AmEng" class volunteered these hometown usages. Any info? a) SARP 'lazy' (Pt. Pleasant WV & Mason Co area) b) DUTCH 'silly' or 'goofy' as "don't act swo dutch" (Oil City PA) (Reading PA ) c) STRANGE 'afraid of strangers' "Is your child strange/" (Pittsburgh) The etymology of the first is particularly puzzling. Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 16:55:06 -0500 From: Cynthia Bernstein Subject: ESL opening The English Department at Auburn University hopes to make the following appointment: Assistant professor: applied linguistics with expertise in ESL. Tenure-track. Ph.D. required. Send letter of application and vita postmarked by November 11 to Dennis Rygiel, Head Department of English Auburn University, AL 36849-5203 Applications will be acknowledged by a department letter. Auburn University is an AA/EO employer. Applications from women and minority group members are especially encouraged. Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 09:28:03 -0500 From: Joan Livingston-Webber Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - "Making strange" He's making strange. For a child (toddler age) retreating from advancing unfamliar adult. Johnstown, PA (very near Pittsburg), 1950's, 60's. -- Joan Livingston-Webber webber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unomaha.edu "It's hard to work with a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, TNG Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 15:49:20 EST From: Ricardo Cardenas Subject: how much of English comes from Latin? This may be a novice question but, does anyone know how much (in percentage terms) of the English language comes from Latin? I've heard estimates ranging from 10% to 70%. As English derives from Germanic, I would tend to think it would be rather on the low end of those estimates. Has any study been made based on either straight # of words, or on a weighted average of words? Any factual data? (please reply to me directly as I have not yet joined the list. Thanks) Ricardo rcardena[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pr.oracle.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 20:46:00 CST From: Cynthia Bernstein Subject: somewheres Where do the occasional s's we hear in "somewheres" or "anywheres" come from? --Cindy Bernstein Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 22:04:25 CDT From: "Donald M. Lance" Subject: Re: somewheres Somewheres around adverbial genitives, I'd think. DMLance .