There are 12 messages totalling 292 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. May Day (2)

 2. A Fey Day May Day Hey Dey (6)

 3.  No subject given  (2)

 4. Michail's final

 5. Bounced Mail



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 02:40:36 -0400

From:  TERRY IRONS  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: May Day



Workers of the World Unite!



Examine your role in the continuance of human oppression.



Celebrate May Day.





Terry



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 07:39:31 -0400

From:  David Muschell  dmuschel[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: May Day



 Workers of the World Unite!

 

 Examine your role in the continuance of human oppression.

 

 Celebrate May Day.

 

 

 Terry



Three imperatives: sounds oppressive to me.



David



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 10:04:51 -0600

From:  Samuel Jones  smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Fey Day May Day Hey Dey



 Workers of the World Unite!

 

 Examine your role in the continuance of human oppression.

 

 Celebrate May Day.

 

 

 Terry





I say KEEP HIM IN IRONS!!



____________________________________________________________________________

DR. SAMUEL M. JONES          INTERNET: smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu

Prof. of Music & Latin American Studies TELNET: samjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu

5434 Humanities Building          FAX: 608 + 262-8876 (UW)

455 North Park Street

__________________________________________

University of Wisconsin-Madison TELEPHONES: 608 + 263-1900 (UW-Lv. message)

Madison, WI 53706-1483          * 608 + 263-1924 * (UW-Office -

                        * VOICE MAIL--Lv message)



____________________________________________________________________________

"Pen-y-Bryn"          TELEPHONES: 608 + 233-2150 (Home)

122 Shepard Terrace             608 + 233-4748 (Home)

Madison, WI 53705-3614

____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 13:46:25 -0400

From:  Jules Levin  jflevin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCRAC1.UCR.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Fey Day May Day Hey Dey



I'm glad to see some people on the list have a sense of humor (perhaps even

Terry....? Can he be serious???)



Anyway, enough decades have gone by that there may be a few young

whippersnappers out there who haven't heard Adlai Stevenson's remark:



    Eggheads of the world, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your yolks!



Anyway, enjoy...







At 10:04 AM 5/1/96 -0600, you wrote:

  Workers of the World Unite!

  

  Examine your role in the continuance of human oppression.

  

  Celebrate May Day.

  

  

  Terry

 

 

 I say KEEP HIM IN IRONS!!

 

 ____________________________________________________________________________

 DR. SAMUEL M. JONES          INTERNET: smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu

 Prof. of Music & Latin American Studies TELNET: samjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu

 5434 Humanities Building          FAX: 608 + 262-8876 (UW)

 455 North Park Street

 __________________________________________

 University of Wisconsin-Madison TELEPHONES: 608 + 263-1900 (UW-Lv. message)

 Madison, WI 53706-1483          * 608 + 263-1924 * (UW-Office -

                         * VOICE MAIL--Lv message)

 

 ____________________________________________________________________________

 "Pen-y-Bryn"          TELEPHONES: 608 + 233-2150 (Home)

 122 Shepard Terrace             608 + 233-4748 (Home)

 Madison, WI 53705-3614

 ____________________________________________________________________________

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 13:58:54 -0400

From:  David R Beach  dbeach[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OSF1.GMU.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Fey Day May Day Hey Dey



Dyslexics of the world untie!



Happy May Day!

david



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

    *   David Beach + ESL Coordinator/Consultant     *

    *  The Writing Center at George Mason University   *

    * 4400 University Drive + Fairfax, VA 22030-4444 + USA *

    *   tel: +1-703-993-1200 fax: +1-703-993-3664    *

    *  dbeach[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gmu.edu + http://osf1.gmu.edu/~wcenter   *

"That so few now dare to be eccentric marks the chief danger of our time."

                 --John Stuart Mill



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 11:43:23 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Fey Day May Day Hey Dey



On Wed, 1 May 1996, David R Beach wrote:



  Dyslexics of the world untie!

 

  Happy May Day!

  david



Shouldn't that be "Happy Yam Yad"?



Peter



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 14:19:44 -0600

From:  Luanne von Schneidemesser  lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Fey Day May Day Hey Dey



Whatever happened to the pleasant tradition of May baskets? Not a single

one here in Wisconsin.



Luanne

 

 

   Dyslexics of the world untie!

  

    Happy May Day!

    david

  

 

  Shouldn't that be "Happy Yam Yad"?

 

Luanne von Schneidemesser

Dictionary of American Regional English

6129 H.C. White Hall, 600 N. Park St.

University of Wisconsin-Madison

Madison WI 53706

(608) 263-2748



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 15:49:23 EDT

From:  Michael Montgomery  N270053[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



Dear Friends,



A candid statement from a final exam I have just read:



"Out of all the different dialects, Standard English is the one that is

most wildly used."



Is this why some of us don't communicate with our students as well as we'd

like?



A gentle end of the semester to all,



Michael Montgomery

Dept of English

Univ of South Carolina



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 16:03:55 EST

From:  Boyd Davis  FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



Like Michael, busily grading papers - but the recent spate of MayDay

messages reminds me of my favorite license plate in Charlotte. It's

on the back of a Rolls Silver Cloud:  LYSDEXIA



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 13:10:58 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Fey Day May Day Hey Dey



On Wed, 1 May 1996, Luanne von Schneidemesser wrote:



  Whatever happened to the pleasant tradition of May baskets? Not a single

  one here in Wisconsin.

 

  Luanne

   



That's because, if I remember correctly, in Wisconsin May doesn't arrive

until June. :-)



(Sorry, couldn't resist.)



Peter



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 16:31:49 -0500

From:  Lewis Sanborne  lsanbore[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUNIX.SAU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Michail's final



Like Michael, I just had a pleasant chuckle while reading papers:

"From the moment a child is born, it is treated in a manor according to its

gender." I can see the twin palaces now.

Lew Sanborne  lsanbore[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]saunix.sau.edu 

English and Academic Support

St. Ambrose University

Davenport, IA 52803

319 333-6335



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 1 May 1996 19:13:38 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Bounced Mail



****************************************************************

 REMINDER: WHEN INCLUDING A PREVIOUS LIST POSTING IN SOMETHING

 YOU'RE SENDING TO THE LIST, BE SURE TO EDIT OUT ALL REFERENCES

 TO ADS-L IN THE HEADERS.

****************************************************************

  Date:     Wed, 1 May 1996 19:16:38 -0400

  From: "L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8b)"  LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

  Subject:   ADS-L: error report from GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU

 

 The enclosed message, found in the ADS-L mailbox and shown under the spool ID

 2820 in the system log, has been identified as a possible delivery error notice

 for the following reason: "Sender:", "From:" or "Reply-To:" field pointing to

 the list has been found in mail body.

 

  ---------------- Message in error (36 lines) --------------------------

  Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 19:16:40 -0400 (EDT)

  From: "Peter L. Patrick"  PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.acc.georgetown.edu 

  Subject: Re: "Language for Time Travelers"

 

    Subj:    "Language for Time Travelers"

 

    "Language for Time Travelers" by L. Sprague De Camp was published in

    Astounding Science Fiction in 1938. The magazine (now called Analog)

    might be ready for another article on the subject by now. If not, one of

    the other science fiction magazines might be interested.

   

    I think De Camp's article is most easily available now in _The Best of L.

    Sprague De Camp_.

   

    It was less inclusive than the title indicates; it concentrated on English.

   

    Dan Goodman

 

  I bet the DeCamp best known to ADSers is David. And I've wondered for

  some time now, is there any relation between these two? Just how

  common is the last name? (I've never heard it for anyone else.)

     --peter



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 30 Apr 1996 to 1 May 1996

***********************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 117 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. ADS-L Digest - 30 Apr 1996 to 1 May 1996 (3)

 2. Duh! (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 2 May 1996 00:07:32 -0400

From:  ALICE FABER  faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HASKINS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 30 Apr 1996 to 1 May 1996



Michael Montgomery wrote:



| Dear Friends,

|

| A candid statement from a final exam I have just read:

|

| "Out of all the different dialects, Standard English is the one that is

| most wildly used."

    ^^^^^^

| Is this why some of us don't communicate with our students as well as we'd

| like?



Isn't this evidence of the intrusive /l/ we were talking about before we got

sidetracked by May( )day, or at least some kind of linguistic insecurity

engendered thereby?



| A gentle end of the semester to all,



Indeed.



Alice Faber



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 2 May 1996 10:42:00 -0700

From:  David Robertson  net091[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RISCY.SFCC.CTC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Duh!



   Hi there;



   Did you who are interested hear yesterday's "All Things Considered"

on National Public Radio? They aired a story on words being added to

Webster's Dictionary, including "Duh!" There was also a memorable

illustration of the use of several of the new entries at once, being a

sentence about Ruth Bader Ginsburg being bummed when phallocentric

Chechens dissed her in cyberspace. Good fun and fairly informative. NPR

supplies tapes of its broadcasts for a fee, I believe.



   Cheers --



   Dave



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 2 May 1996 15:40:28 -0500

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: Duh!



On Thu, 2 May 1996, David Robertson wrote:



  NPS

  supplies tapes of its broadcasts for a fee, I believe.



You can also listen to their broadcasts in real-time (that is, you don't

have to wait ages for the sounds to download) on the NPR web site.



Kate Catmull      kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 2 May 1996 21:25:07 -0500

From:  Dan Goodman  goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREENET.MSP.MN.US 

Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 30 Apr 1996 to 1 May 1996



    Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 19:16:40 -0400 (EDT)

    From: "Peter L. Patrick"  PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.acc.georgetown.edu 

    Subject: Re: "Language for Time Travelers"

   

      Subj:    "Language for Time Travelers"

   

      "Language for Time Travelers" by L. Sprague De Camp was published in

      Astounding Science Fiction in 1938. The magazine (now called Analog)

      might be ready for another article on the subject by now. If not, one of

      the other science fiction magazines might be interested.

     

      I think De Camp's article is most easily available now in _The Best of L.

      Sprague De Camp_.

     

      It was less inclusive than the title indicates; it concentrated on English.

     

      Dan Goodman

   

    I bet the DeCamp best known to ADSers is David. And I've wondered for

    some time now, is there any relation between these two? Just how

    common is the last name? (I've never heard it for anyone else.)

A quick check of the Web through AltaVista shows other De Camps --

including another David.



I suspect the two are distantly related.



Dan Goodman

(who is related to only two other Goodmans now living.)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 2 May 1996 19:34:40 -0800

From:  "Alan S. Kaye"  AKAYE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 30 Apr 1996 to 1 May 1996



New issue of California Linguistic Notes



Attn: Fellow Linguists

   We are now producing Vol 25, No. 1, of CLN. If you have a review,

short to medium article, or squib, the deadline will be June 1 for this

issue. Also, jobs, announcements, news, etc. Let's hear from you:

akaye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fullerton.edu.

Alan Kaye, Editor

Linguistics

CSU, Fullerton

Fullerton, CA 92634



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 1 May 1996 to 2 May 1996

**********************************************





There is one message totalling 19 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. California Linguistic Notes 25:1



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 3 May 1996 13:20:53 -0800

From:  "Alan S. Kaye"  AKAYE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU 

Subject: California Linguistic Notes 25:1



For a subscription to California Linguistic Notes, Vol. 25:1, remit $20.00

to CLN, Linguistics, California State University, Fullerton, CA 92634. The

subscription will usually allow the subscriber to receive two issues (which

are planned annually). If subscribers increase over the current number, then a third issue might be possible, depending on production costs then in effect.

CLN 25:1 is now in preparation for appearance this summer. We need more articles (short to medium length), squibs, and reviews. Also, we feature jobs and

announcements, and anything of interest to the profession. Anything accepted

can also be published elsewhere (we will even say where).

Please contact me if you have something.

  -----Alan Kaye-----Editor

akaye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fullerton.edu

Fax: 714-449-5954

ph. 714-773-3163



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 2 May 1996 to 3 May 1996

**********************************************





There is one message totalling 32 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Help wanted: African American dialects



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 4 May 1996 14:05:19 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Help wanted: African American dialects



Would anyone be willing to respond to the following? Please send her a

message directly at: slane[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HUB.ofthe.NET (Sharon S. Lane); if it's of general

interest, you might post it to ADS-L too. Thanks - Allan Metcalf



-----------------------------------------------------



I am doing research for the elementary school principal for whom I work.

She is interested in the effects that Black Dialect has on the school

performance of inner city school children on standardized tests. She

also wants information on Black or African American Dialect's origins

and translations.



I am not a linguist, so when I looked through your various sections on

your web page, I was not sure where to start looking. Could you please

help me?



We do not want our students to loose their dialect, only to show them

that there is a time and a place for all kinds of language.



I would appreciate any sources or information you can give me. Thank

you in advance for your assistance.



Sharon Lane



P.S. I can also be reached at Sslane[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 3 May 1996 to 4 May 1996

**********************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 34 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. African-American English in the Schools (2)

 2. more on African-American English in the Schools



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 5 May 1996 13:25:35 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: African-American English in the Schools



The best book on the subject that I know about is R. Burling's ENGLISH

IN BLACK AND WHITE, published I beleive about 20 years ago by I bellieve

Holt. the last time I used it it was still in print. A name to check is

Walt Wolfram, who has published a lot in this field. You might also want

to call the Center for Applied Linguistics in Washington, DC, and talk

to Donna Christian.



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 5 May 1996 15:27:38 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: more on African-American English in the Schools



See also Walt Wolfram & Donna Christian, DIALECTS AND EDUCATION: ISSUES

AND ANSWERS (Prentice-Hall, 1989).



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 5 May 1996 22:37:51 -0400

From:  BARBARA HILL HUDSON  BHHUDSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GROVE.IUP.EDU 

Subject: Re: African-American English in the Schools



Orlando Taylor and Richard Wright, both of Howard University, have also written

on this subject.



Barbara Hill Hudson

bhhudson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]grove.iup.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 4 May 1996 to 5 May 1996

**********************************************





There are 11 messages totalling 346 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Th Linguistic Autobiography (3)

 2. The Linguistic Autobiography: Addendum

 3. Linguistic bio assignment (4)

 4. Linguistic Autobiography (2)

 5. Ling Bio and Ellen Johnson



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 12:34:27 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Th Linguistic Autobiography



One of the joys of teaching is having an assignment succeed, especially

in a large class. I love to teach Ling 200, our intro course. This year,

we offered only one section, so I allowed students to add past the usual

enrollment max of 32. Thirty-seven students finished the course.



One assignment I periodically use is the linguistic autobiography. I got

the idea from Raven McDavid many years ago, when I was visiting him in

Chicago. I overheard a conference with a student and asked about the

assignment. What I do is, towards the end of the course, ask students to

write an essay accounting for how they use language and how they came to

have the attitudes they have about the way other people use language. I

read a first draft, which is usually heavy on family history, short on

linguistic detail. I then make suggestions re the latter and ask for a

final draft.



Along the way, I share details from my own linguistic autobiography,

beginning with my "Shirley stories." When I was 9/10, we moved to a

"city" (Beaumont, TX), the first non-rural environment I lived in

for any significant period of time. There for the first time I had a

best friend, a girl named Shirley, who gave me some important

training in rural/urban distinctions. Our first lesson. for instance, was

triggered by my use of the term "washrag." "You shouldn't say 'washrag,'"

Shirley responded. "Why not?" I asked, puzzled. "It doesn't sound nice," said

Shirley. "Oh," I said, faced with a predicament. "Then what should I say?"

"Wash cloth," said Shirley. "Why?" I asked. "It sounds better," said

Shirley. Sociolinguistics 101! Shirley was little and cute and was

determined to move up and out of the working-class neighborhood we lived

in, and her linguistic instincts were quite sound, I think.



This year, I required each student to give a 5-minute oral report to the

class on the assn. The reports were funny, the papers are excellent,

and I have now decided to modify the assignment by requiring students

to audio or video-tape (themselves or family members) in connection

with it in the future The idea came from a student who had a

small part in the film, "Coal Miner's Daughter," when she was 6 years

old as one of Loretta Lynn's twin daughters. Her one line included the word

"probably." The scene had to be reshot several times, because her mother

taught her to say /prab[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bli/ instead of the expected /prabli/. The student

showed the scene from the film in class.



I have many wonderful examples of student analysis of family language.

Perhaps I can find a suitable audience for a brief presentation. Anyone

know of a conference with an appropriate theme?



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 14:03:07 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: The Linguistic Autobiography: Addendum



One of my students introduced her oral report by saying that she is

"functionally" bidialectal. She talks "standard," but sings "country."

She was taught to play the guitar by a country singer in eastern

Kentucky. She gave us a few details, then picked up her guitar and

demonstrated her skill by belting out a Johnny Cash number.



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 14:32:38 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Linguistic bio assignment



On Mon, 6 May 1996, mai kuha asked:



  Could you say a little more about how you handle the issue of student

  privacy in giving this assignment? Of course the students can complete

  the assignment without discussing every double negative and nonstandard

  subject-verb agreement ever uttered in their families, but isn't there

  some possibility that some individuals may somehow feel compelled to say

  more about their stigmatized linguistic behaviors than they wanted to?

 snip 

  Clearly, these are important stories for the other students to

  hear, but what's a positive way to handle this so that nobody becomes

  too vulnerable?

 

Thanks for your comment. Of course privacy is an important issue. I

address it both directly and indirectly. First, I use the assignment late

in the semester. By then, we know each other a bit (I have students work

in groups on some exercises), and they have heard some of my Shirley

stories, deliberately told to suggest my working-class origins. I have

talked about what it is like to be the first generation to be

university-educated. I have also brought in examples and small exercises

from "real" life (for those of you who reall it, for two years, now I have

used the "Barney Fag" question in class). Finally, I make it clear that

the student may choose what to present in the five-minute report. I never

ask questions about topics the student chooses not to report. And in the

papers themselves, students often reveal more than they do in the oral

reports, sometimes by inserting a "Like you, I .." (ex: "I, like you,

also referred to a wash cloth as a wash rag.") But they also delight in

referring to themselves as, for instance, "the king of infixing."



I suspect that such matters are slightly less volatile here than on some

campuses. I was very surprised to learn recently of the reaction to the

original version of the film "American Tongues" on such campuses as Duke,

where apparently showing the version containing the n-word guarantees a

ruckus. I have shown the original version of that film to classes here

for all the years it has been in existence. The only strong reaction to

it I have ever had was by a woman from Newport (Cocke County), who took

exception to the story about the West Virginian and his "you all stuff."

(And, by the way, I always show the film early in the semester to L200

students.)



We laugh at ourselves a lot in Linguistics 200 throughout the semester,

and I think that helps a lot. In this section, there were about 6 true

"hillbillies," about 6 true "Yankees," and about 6 deep Georgia

Southerners (I was the only Texas) -- we all laughted about all the

linguistic differences.



Remember: I live and teach within about two miles of sites where I can

hear native speakers of "dope" meaning "coke," double modals,

a-prefixing, "don't care to" meaning "don't mind," monophthongized /ai/,

etc. I try to capitalize on that fact.



In our oral evaluation exercise at the end of the semester, the students

insisted I must add field trips to the course. They would not take very

long!



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 15:54:04 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Linguistic bio assignment



A question and a correction, Bethany:



1. What is the "Barney Fag" question? (I remember the "Barney Fag"

incident--was it really two years ago?)

2. "American Tongues" did not stir up a fuss at all at Duke--and the

scene with the word "nigger" uttered by a white man was not cut. Walt

Wolfram told me (as I recall) that the word created quite a ruckus in some

high schools, which led to an expurgated version of the film.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 16:23:23 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Linguistic bio assignment



On Mon, 6 May 1996, Ronald Butters wrote:



  A question and a correction, Bethany:

 

  1. What is the "Barney Fag" question? (I remember the "Barney Fag"

  incident--was it really two years ago?)



What I mean by the "question" is whether it is reasonable to claim that

"Barney Frank" can become "Barney Fag" as a simple slip of the tongue.



  2. "American Tongues" did not stir up a fuss at all at Duke--and the

  scene with the word "nigger" uttered by a white man was not cut.



Thanks for the correction.



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 16:38:16 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: Th Linguistic Autobiography



Interesting coincidence. This semester I used a linguistic autobiography

assignment. (I had used a different variant of the assignment in earlier

semesters. This semester's effort worked better than in the past.)

During the first few weeks of the semester, I had students read Richard

Gunter's "Linguistic Autobiography of and American," in Centennial Usage

Studies [Greta D. Little and Michael Montgomery, eds. Publication

of the American Dialect Society, No. 78. Tuscaloosa, AL: University

of Alabama Press]. Then I had students write about their linguistic

experiences in one of their early computer conferences. This was the

first step in their thinking about and collecting information for a

linguistic autobiography that they would complete and turn in in April.

Gunter's article is one model (but not the only model) they could use.



Like Bethany, my experience with the assignment was very positive.

Today, the teacher for the Composition for Teachers class told me that

some of my students had chosen their linguistic autobiographies to

include in their writing portfolios.



My class is a junior level class required for prospective teachers of

secondary English. I didn't have the 26 students give an oral report,

but now I wish I had. Thanks for that idea, Bethany.



No questions about privacy came up. The students could choose one of

a number of models--family language, memories of the "Shirley" type, etc.

They could choose to write about their linguistic experiences as a

college student, or they could focus on linguistic experiences during

the current semester. Most students chose to write about family

language or memories; one wrote about college experience. No student

wrote only about the current semester.



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

* Jeutonne_Brewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 16:42:20 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: Linguistic bio assignment



Ron, I'm glad to hear that "American Tongues did not stir up a

fuss at Duke. Bill Coleman and I have been using the video regularly

here and we haven't had any problems.



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

* Jeutonne_Brewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 15:54:55 -0500

From:  "DICK HEABERLIN, ENGLISH DEPARTMENT,

     SOUTHWEST TEXAS STATE UNIVERSITY"  DH12[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SWT.EDU 

Subject: Re: Th Linguistic Autobiography



Speaking of Shirley stories--Southeast Texas Dialect-- and autobiography,

I think immediately of Mary Karr's _The Liars Club_, which is a feast for

anyone familiar with, or interested in, southeast Texas dialect.



Dick Heaberlin,

who grow up in Orange, before it became part of the Golden Triangle.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 17:14:27 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Linguistic Autobiography



On Mon, 6 May 1996, Jeutonne Brewer wrote:



  Interesting coincidence. This semester I used a linguistic autobiography

  assignment. (I had used a different variant of the assignment in earlier

  semesters. This semester's effort worked better than in the past.)

  During the first few weeks of the semester, I had students read Richard

  Gunter's "Linguistic Autobiography of and American,"  snip 

  Gunter's article is one model (but not the only model) they could use.

 

Students always ask for a model. So far, I have resisted providing one,

primarily because I think my students do more creative work if they don't

have a model to follow. I do not think models are bad, just that my

students tend to follow them slavishly. How do you get around that,

Jeutonne? Or is that a problem? I will not even show them previous

students' essays (even with the previous students' permission!). (I have

not read Gunter's essay yet.)



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 16:30:54 -0500

From:  Donald Larmouth  LARMOUTD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GBMS01.UWGB.EDU 

Subject: Re: Linguistic Autobiography



As another McDavid student I used to use the "linguistic autobiography"

assignment too, but I found they were usually long on family history and short

on linguistic citations, and many of the latter seemed either cute or labored

in an effort to be "interesting"--or they were very judgmental, hung up on

"correctness."



In recent years I've asked students to focus on a particular setting (part-time

[or full-time] job, recreational group, hobby club, favorite hangouts, etc.)

and characterize the usage of that group in that setting, especially in-group

slang and jargon that would likely not be known to "outsiders." This has been

quite productive and diminishes the privacy issue because it characterizes

group conventions rather than idiosyncratic ones. For me this is an early

assignment, not a late one--I like to try to get the students into an "observer

mode" as soon as possible. As might be expected, the students are more

comfortable picking out special terminology, idioms, acronyms, etc., and

defining them--less comfortable trying to describe phonological features,

"accents," etc.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 6 May 1996 19:11:15 -0400

From:  TERRY IRONS  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Ling Bio and Ellen Johnson



I am excited by the assignment as Bethany describes it and plan to use it

in the future. A recent comment said the assignment elicited too much

about family and not enough about language. Why is that a problem?



My colleagues in Rhet/Comp use a similar assignment that I have never

found attractive. They ask students to write what they call a Literacy

Narrative. I don't know the whole of the assignment, but I understand it

is common in current comp pedagogy that has self-awareness and a Freirian

agenda as its content. Students write a narrative about their

development as writers. I have often looked on the idea with some envy,

but have never really seen an appropriate context. The way Bethany

describes the assignment may help me to find a context.



On a side note, which was the real purpose of the e-missive, can anyone

provide me with Ellen Johnson's current e-mail address? I understand she

may be changing jobs (she took one before we could hire her!) and I need

to contact her before she moves.



Terry Irons



(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 5 May 1996 to 6 May 1996

**********************************************





There are 14 messages totalling 370 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Ling Bio

 2. SAMLA - ADS

 3. RM - American Dialect Society

 4. wh- at ny- ews from Texas? (2)

 5. Ling Bio and Ellen Johnson (2)

 6. Children's Lit Help

 7. Linguistic Autobiography

 8. Do REAL Texicans Say wh=[hw] & news=[njuz]?

 9. More Texan-y Confessions

 10. Speaking "country"

 11. packy?

 12. singular "we"



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 07:43:02 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Ling Bio



Thank you for the feedback on ling bio assignments. I am excited by the

assignment all over again! And I use it every year!



I intend to become active in NCTE again, and it occurs to me that a

session on ling bios might fit at a CCCC session sometime--is anyone else

interested? How far in advance do we need to plan? I have not been active

in NCTE for about fifteen years. What think you?



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 12:16:07 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: SAMLA - ADS



Dear Peter,

 Do you now have the program for the ADS session at SAMLA?

 If so, could you send me titles & authors (by e-mail, preferably) right

away? I hope to send NADS to the printer by the end of the week.

 For the Sept issue, I'll also appreciate abstracts; but those can wait if

they're not handy.

 Thanks a lot! I'll also be able to give your correct address!

Best wishes - Allan



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 12:16:11 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: RM - American Dialect Society



Dear Professor Huang:

 Thank you for the abstracts as well as the full program! Now I have

everything I need for the ADS newsletter.

 Best wishes - Allan Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 12:16:15 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: wh- at ny- ews from Texas?



ADS member and cinema dialect coach Allyn Partin asks for information on the

following in current Texas adult speech. ("Adult" meaning "grown up," not

something else.) She wants to help certain actors sound Texan.



1. Is there a distinction between wh- and w- ?



2. Is there a [j] after the initial [n] in *news* etc?



She is not e-connected, so I will note your answers and pass them on. Or, if

you care to phone her directly (some of you know her), it's 818/361-0898.



- Allan Metcalf, ADS executive secretary



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 12:46:55 EST

From:  Boyd Davis  FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Ling Bio and Ellen Johnson



A variation on the linguistic autobiography which has been positive and

successful lately: students use notes from a prompted session on creating

linguistic autobiography. The prompts begin with a 'talking world map' for

current places where conversations are crucial, and go back in time via

houseplan of early (and positive) Place. On this houseplan, they scribble

notes identifying reading,writing,and variation in speech. Using a time-

line, they identify peaks in their own lifeline for important language-

awarenesses. This set of notes is written up into a two-page informal

narrative which is the background section for the second part of the

autobiography -- a close look at a restricted vocabulary they use (or

used), which can be keyed to occupation, status, hobby, envisioned career,

and the like.

   Some of the ones from this semester include how language changed

when promoted to different jobs on a loading dock, what happened to left-

over words from canal boats in a small town along the Erie canal, and

how taking different dates to different restaurants (one preferred generic

but fancy and the other loved authentic and local) meant handling menu-talk

in order to Look Suave

   The prompting eliminates the need for models, and they find themselves

suddenly interested in word-formation and processes of change, etc. I've

had good fortune with every variation, so I agree with Bethany and Jeutonne



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 14:41:58 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Ling Bio and Ellen Johnson



On Tue, 7 May 1996, Boyd Davis wrote:



  A variation on the linguistic autobiography which has been positive and

  successful lately: students use notes from a prompted session on creating

  linguistic autobiography. The prompts begin with a 'talking world map' for

  current places where conversations are crucial, and go back in time via

  houseplan ...



Sounds interesting. I'd like to know more: who does the "prompting"? what

is the 'talking world map' like? Is there something in print I can read?



Thanks,

Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 14:48:35 -0400

From:  Bob Haas  rahaas[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Children's Lit Help



ADS Folken,



While this isn't the proper forum for this question, I hope that some of

you might know where to forward it.



I'm trying to find a book that I read when I was eight years old; I

cannot recall the name. It's about a boy who receives a gift from an

extraterrestrial. I don't remember his name, but I have the notion that

he was a cross between Klaatu and Ward Cleaver. Anyway, he gives this

kid a ball that will do anything the boy wills it to. Pretty cool, eh?

If you can help me with the title, I'll be most grateful. I'm guessing

that it was published in the mid to late 50s.



Bob



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 14:52:53 -0500

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: wh- at ny- ews from Texas?



On Tue, 7 May 1996, Allan Metcalf wrote:



  ADS member and cinema dialect coach Allyn Partin asks for information on the

  following in current Texas adult speech. ("Adult" meaning "grown up," not

  something else.) She wants to help certain actors sound Texan.



The answers to both these questions depend on what part of Texas the

person is from (or trying to sound like they're from), the character's

rural-ness or urban-ity, etc. That said--



  1. Is there a distinction between wh- and w- ?



Last year a dialect coach told me that "texas" is one of the few places to

preserve this distinction. I was suspicious, but shortly afterwards began

to hear it in the speech of people with strong West Texas and South

Texas drawls. For whatever that's worth. I still don't hear it much in the

faster, more nasal East Texas speech.



  2. Is there a [j] after the initial [n] in *news* etc?



This sounds more East Texas-y to me.



Sorry this obviously very informal. I once read the difference between

West and East Texas accents described in terms of two men then running for

Texas governor: Maaawk Whahht (Mark White) and Chim Maedix (Jim Maddox). The

latter is particularly _nasal_.



I guess it depends on whether the character is meant to sound like a classic

cowboy or Ross Perot.



Kate Catmull          kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 16:52:54 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: Linguistic Autobiography



I also prefer not to stress a model too much. This essay was an

assigned reading in one of their textbooks, so it made sense to

use it as one possible example. Perhaps I was just lucky because

the students did not slavishly follow the example. I also talked

with the students about different ways in which they could organize

their essays. I don't use previous students' essays for this

assignment or any othrs because I think students do tend to

think of that example as the only successful example.



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

* Jeutonne_Brewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 16:26:25 -0600

From:  Samuel Jones  smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Do REAL Texicans Say wh=[hw] & news=[njuz]?



 ADS member and cinema dialect coach Allyn Partin asks for information on the

 following in current Texas adult speech. ("Adult" meaning "grown up," not

 something else.) She wants to help certain actors sound Texan.

______________________________________________________________________

I am originally from Oklahoma, but I lived and taught in the eastern part

of Texas for about 5 years, although I also spent a considerable amout of

time in and around Brownwood, Texas--"West"-Central Texas, after my parents

moved there.



 1. Is there a distinction between wh- and w- ?



During the years I lived in eastern-southern Oklahoma, there was a CLEAR

distinction made. In those years I taught in East Texas, some 45

years ago!, the same CLEAR distinction between [hw] & [w] was also made.

Along Texas' southern coastal plain, I sensed that this difference was NOT

always observed, although this is nothing more than my impression. I

suspect that usage varies widely within the state, depending to some

extent on the language traditions and characteristics of both original

settlers and of those who subsequently settled throughout the different

areas of the state, even creating linguistics pockets. The "Piney Woods"

of East Texas are far different from the "twang" of Abilene or from the

somewhat softer, easier vowels of a place like Temple, Texas.



 2. Is there a [j] after the initial [n] in *news* etc?



I found the transitory "i" = IPA [j] to be broadly distributed throughout

the North, the Central and the Eastern parts of Texas, as in [njuz] or

[njuz-pe-pr]. It is also found in suit=[sjut] & [sjut-kes].



There is in many Southern areas a perhaps slightly less clear but still

easily-distinguishable [j] in a word like shoes=[shjuz].



smjones

__________________________________________________________________________

 She is not e-connected, so I will note your answers and pass them on. Or, if

 you care to phone her directly (some of you know her), it's 818/361-0898.

 

 - Allan Metcalf, ADS executive secretary



____________________________________________________________________________

DR. SAMUEL M. JONES          INTERNET: smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu

Prof. of Music & Latin American Studies TELNET: samjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu

5434 Humanities Building          FAX: 608 + 262-8876 (UW)

455 North Park Street

__________________________________________

University of Wisconsin-Madison TELEPHONES: 608 + 263-1900 (UW-Lv. message)

Madison, WI 53706-1483          * 608 + 263-1924 * (UW-Office -

                        * VOICE MAIL--Lv message)



____________________________________________________________________________

"Pen-y-Bryn"          TELEPHONES: 608 + 233-2150 (Home)

122 Shepard Terrace             608 + 233-4748 (Home)

Madison, WI 53705-3614

____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 17:44:57 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: More Texan-y Confessions



[The ff-ing data are self-reported by a Caucasion female, aged 59, who was

born in Corpus Christi, TX, and spent her formative years (well, the

first ones) in southeast Texas.]



  Now that you know about "wash rag," you might as well know about /hw-/

  and /s, t, d, n + glide/:



1. /hw-/



  I am a native speaker of /hw-/, though I have learned to style-shift in

  recent decades. My mother (80, southeast TX) speaks /hw-/ and does not

  style-shift.



  I once heard Gary Underwood (is he still in Austin?) say that he did not

  understand the Mickey Mouse Theme Song until he took a linguistics course

  from Harold Allen at Minn. Gary grew up in Clay County, ARK (the "white

  delta") and when he heard /wai/ he heard "Y" NOT "why."



2. /s, t, d, n + glide/



  I am also a native speaker of /s, t, d, n + glide/, as in student,

  tune, dew, and news. But even as a child, I could (and did) say, "Put up

  your /duks/," and I have style-shifted ever since I went to Chicago:



  On that trip to Chicago when I got the idea for the ling autobiography

  from RIM, I also astounded a roomful of linguists and linguistic students

  at IIT when I said the word /nyuz/. I don't think anyone in the room

  except me had ever heard anyone actually pronounce the glide in that

  context except as an exercise in a linguistics class. Larry Davis was there,

  I think, but I'm not sure who else.



  However, I do not have an affricate in such words as tulip, and that's

  not uncommon in East Tennessee.



  Boyd, you wanna prompt me while I plan my ling autobiography? The time

  line will take a while to construct, but there's lots of stuff to report.



  So am I a "classic cowboy or Ross Perot"? I don't think so -- more like

  Molly Ivins, who reminds me of my cousin Patsy (southeast TX, about five

  years older than me). But I don't know where Molly is from.



  Now I'll hush and go grade papers.



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 19:03:04 -0500

From:  Dan Goodman  goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREENET.MSP.MN.US 

Subject: Speaking "country"



There's at least one singer whose "country" accent is thicker when she

speaks than when she sings: Nanci Griffith.



Not incidentally, country recordings from _very_ early (the 1920's)

mostly have a rather different accent than what's now considered

"country." To me, it sounds more lowland Southern and less "Hillbilly."

(However, I'm not a trained observer. I don't even play one on television.)



Dan Goodman



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 23:24:20 EST

From:  Boyd Davis  FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU 

Subject: packy?



What does 'packy' mean in this context?



Late that next afternoon, I found Det. Lt. Royce Whitlock of the state police

where he usually went for lunch on his days off: downstairs in the basement

of a thriving cement-block mini-mall in Lynnfield--convenience store selling

milk, cigarettes, potato chips, and lottery scratch cards and keno tickets

that kept a bunch of older guys in satin jackets rapt in front of a TV

screen; two-chair barber shop; sewing supplies store; packy; and a take-out

sandwich shop.

 --George V. Higgins, Sandra Nichols Found Dead. New York: Henry Holt,1996



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 7 May 1996 22:53:04 -0500

From:  Dan Goodman  goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREENET.MSP.MN.US 

Subject: singular "we"



In the Twin Cities area, one common equivalent of goodbye is "We'll see

you." A couple years ago, I began to notice how often this was used when

the "we" was one person.



Most of the people I've heard saying this whose backgrounds I know come

from the Twin Cities or rural Minnesota. But one grew up in North

Carolina.



I wonder if this is found elsewhere in the Upper Midwest?



Dan Goodman



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 6 May 1996 to 7 May 1996

**********************************************





There are 11 messages totalling 197 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Stereotyping Texans

 2. singular "we"

 3. packy? (2)

 4. More Texan-y Confessions

 5. my address

 6. maestra?

 7. temporary shut-down (2)

 8. Abstracts for Methods IX (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 00:10:08 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Stereotyping Texans



One might say, "Here we go again". There are of course many different kinds

of Texans, and all of the linguistic maps make clear that East Texas is

different from Central Texas is different from West Texas, and the Rio Grande

Valley, where the purest English is spoken, is a world unto itself. So,

who or what "sounds like a Texan"?

    For this Texan, there is emphatically a /y/ after /t/, /d/, and /n/

before /uw/ in words like Tuesday, due, and news, but I was saddened to note

Jim Lehrer the other night saying /nuwz/ instead of /nyuwz/. A few years

back when I was at UT, I regularly polled classes on the /hw/:/w/ contrast,

and found it at about 50%. So half do and half don't, and all are Texans.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't have the distinction, though my mother

does. But then my greatest linguistic handicap at UT was not "sounding like

a Texan". So, is a puzzlement.







------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 05:31:17 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: singular "we"



  I wonder if this is found elsewhere in the Upper Midwest?



I thought singular "we" as in "we'll see you" was pretty common throughout

the U.S. I've heard it compared with the use of "y'all" in set expressions

like "y'all come back" when said to just one person. I think maybe Michael

Montgomery has made such a comparison in one of his articles on "y'all."

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 06:55:56 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: packy?



  Late that next afternoon, I found Det. Lt. Royce Whitlock of the state police

  where he usually went for lunch on his days off: downstairs in the basement

  of a thriving cement-block mini-mall in Lynnfield--convenience store selling

  milk, cigarettes, potato chips, and lottery scratch cards and keno tickets

  that kept a bunch of older guys in satin jackets rapt in front of a TV

  screen; two-chair barber shop; sewing supplies store; packy; and a take-out

  sandwich shop.

   --George V. Higgins, Sandra Nichols Found Dead. New York: Henry Holt,1996



a packy, in most of massachusetts (that i know of), is a liquor

store. more formally, a 'package store'. (this has something to do

w/ liquor selling laws in massachusetts, but i don't know what.)

don't know if it's spread to other parts of new england.



_packy_ was definitely the most dominant term for liquor store in

western mass when i lived there in the early-mid 80s. (i spent most

of my time there in a umass dorm, so the packy was a frequent topic of

conversation.) a "packy run" is a trip to the liquor store (to stock

up).



cheers,

lynne

---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 09:27:22 -0500

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: More Texan-y Confessions



    So am I a "classic cowboy or Ross Perot"? I don't think so -- more like



I'm the one who brought up this "cowboy vs. Perot" business, and I'm

realizing I should have made clear that I just meant these as easily

accessible examples of perhaps the two most distinct dialects in Texas.

Of course there are many more. I was just trying to give the dialect

coach a sense of how drastically different Texas accents can be.



Kate Catmull      kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 10:22:10 -0600

From:  Ellen Johnson  EJOHNSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU 

Subject: my address



It is rather unsettling to see your own name in the topic headings in your

mailbox. For anybody who cares (and there are many of you who do and who have

been great supporters during my job search), here's the 411:



I will be moving to Bowling Green, KY in August to take a tenure-track job in

the English Dept teaching mostly linguistics (Western Kentucky University).

Yeah!!!:-)



For the next three months my address will remain ejohnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cc.memphis.edu

I will not be teaching this summer, but will be doing an independent study on

field methods with 2 students and working part-time at the Mississippi River

Museum and dabbling at painting and other creative endeavors. I should have

more time for e-mail too.



Ellen



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 10:40:17 -0600

From:  Ellen Johnson  EJOHNSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU 

Subject: maestra?



Anyone care to take up this question (culled from another list)?

                  Ellen





 Anyway, it's fun talking about it. We have a "Master" here with our

 symphony. She is JoAnn Falletta. She is called "Maestro" but shouldn't she

 be called "Mistress?" Or perhaps with a feminine ending to the

 Italian..."Maestra."



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 14:23:31 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: temporary shut-down



How do I turn off this list for two weeks while I'm off in Italy?



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 14:22:16 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: temporary shut-down



  How do I turn off this list for two weeks while I'm off in Italy?



Send this command to listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu:



set ads-l nomail



Be sure to send it from the address your mail comes to -- in your case

the Duke address, not the AOL address. The AOL address is already on

'nomail'.



I trust that anybody who has run into problems with our change to

"send=private" has let me know. But only two or three people have.

I'm hoping that the new version of listserv with an improved spam filter

will be out before too much longer and we can go back to "send=public."

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



P.S. When you want to start getting mail again after setting 'nomail',

the command is 'set ads-l mail'.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 15:43:13 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Abstracts for Methods IX



Thanks to Allan, full abstracts of the fifty papers to be presented at

Methods IX in Wales this summer are now available from the ADS web pages

and from anonymous ftp. To get them on the web, go to http://www.msstate.

edu/Archives/ADS/meetings.html and click on "Abstracts...." To get them

via anonymous ftp, go to ftp.msstate.edu and look in pub/archives/ADS/Files

for a file named methods.txt.



In spite of some slight clutter like "=" at the end of each line, the

online abstracts are easily readable.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 15:49:55 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Abstracts for Methods IX



I just added a copy on gopher also: gopher.msstate.edu -- #3 from first

menu, #1 from second menu, #3 from third menu.



Btw, do any of you ever use the ADS ftp files? It has occurred to me that

these days with most people using the web and occasionally gopher, it may

be that the ftp files are a waste of space.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 8 May 1996 20:06:12 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: packy?



It could be a "Package Store" in New England. Differentiated from a

tavern/bar. Conn. or Mass.?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 7 May 1996 to 8 May 1996

**********************************************





There are 17 messages totalling 404 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. packy? (5)

 2. Words that end in GRY (5)

 3. out-of-pocket (6)

 4. RE out-of-pocket



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 00:26:58 -0400

From:  ALICE FABER  faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HASKINS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: packy?



 From Lynn Murphy:

|

|   Late that next afternoon, I found Det. Lt. Royce Whitlock of the state police

|   where he usually went for lunch on his days off: downstairs in the basement

|   of a thriving cement-block mini-mall in Lynnfield--convenience store selling

|   milk, cigarettes, potato chips, and lottery scratch cards and keno tickets

|   that kept a bunch of older guys in satin jackets rapt in front of a TV

|   screen; two-chair barber shop; sewing supplies store; packy; and a take-out

|   sandwich shop.

|    --George V. Higgins, Sandra Nichols Found Dead. New York: Henry Holt,1996

|

| a packy, in most of massachusetts (that i know of), is a liquor

| store. more formally, a 'package store'. (this has something to do

| w/ liquor selling laws in massachusetts, but i don't know what.)

| don't know if it's spread to other parts of new england.

|

| _packy_ was definitely the most dominant term for liquor store in

| western mass when i lived there in the early-mid 80s. (i spent most

| of my time there in a umass dorm, so the packy was a frequent topic of

| conversation.) a "packy run" is a trip to the liquor store (to stock

| up).



 From William King:

|

| It could be a "Package Store" in New England. Differentiated from a

| tavern/bar. Conn. or Mass.?



Well, I'm familiar with package store, but I can't recall whether I knew the

term before I moved to Connecticut. I've never heard "packy" down here in

South Central CT, though. I'll ask my sister (who lives up by the Mass

border); it will liven up her office, I'm sure, if they've gotten over her

attempts to pin down the _aunt_ /ant/-/aent/ isogloss. (By the way, she's

*not* a linguist...)



Alice Faber

faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]haskins.yale.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 07:38:16 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: Re: packy?



Okay, I thought it was a primitive video arcade, with a pac man or two.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 08:41:37 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: packy?



To support Alice's intuition, I can confirm that 'package store' is standard

here but 'packy' inextant. Of course, it's hard to know that a form REALLY

doesn't occur, but I've never encountered it in 15 years in the same South-

Central Connecticut regional area as Alice's.  I also don't remember 'packy'

from a couple of years spent in Mass. in the '70's, but I do recall that

'package store' is somehow MORE standard there than here, although here it's

used interchangeably with liquor store. People I know always opt for the latter

unregional variant.  Of course not all liquor stores are package stores:

Warehouse Liquors, Liquor Land, etc.--the ones that are more like supermarkets

--are not package stores (much less packies). Oh, if you were wondering, we

don't call them 'lickies' either.



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 09:21:52 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: packy?



larry said:



  To support Alice's intuition, I can confirm that 'package store' is standard

  here but 'packy' inextant. Of course, it's hard to know that a form REALLY

  doesn't occur, but I've never encountered it in 15 years in the same South-

  Central Connecticut regional area as Alice's.  I also don't remember 'packy'

  from a couple of years spent in Mass. in the '70's, but I do recall that

  'package store' is somehow MORE standard there than here, although here it's



well, either "packy" is a later development, or maybe it's college

slang rather than general usage. i swear, when i lived there, nobody

i knew used "package store" in normal conversations. maybe we were

more affectionate toward the package store (and its contents and

services) than average bay staters.



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 06:50:49 PDT

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: Words that end in GRY



In the past few weeks I've seen this unanswered puzzler pop up in three

different circles. So excuse me while I introduce it to this circle which

might be able to answer it.



The English language has (at least) three words that end in GRY. "Angry" and

"hungry" are two of them. What is the third, which purportedly is an everyday

word?



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 09:09:37 CDT

From:  "Halsted M. Bernard"  ZU05756[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU 

Subject: Re: Words that end in GRY



It's not an everyday word... whoever told you that was... well. If they

use it everyday, I'd like to shake their hand. :)



The other word besides 'angry' and 'hungry' is: 'maugry'



'maugre' is still in our dictionaries today... it's Archaic: 'in spite of.'



I have no idea about 'maugry.' I know this only because someone gave me

this puzzle a year ago and it made me crazy till he told me the answer.



Hope you are saved some craziness.

_'sted._



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 11:18:23 -0400

From:  "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783"  BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Words that end in GRY



One of the few uses for a rhyming dictionary is finding responses to questions

such as words that end in -gry!

________________________________________________________________________

    David Bergdahl tel: (614) 593-2783   fax: (614) 593-2818

            Bergdahl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CaTS.OHIOU.EDU

            Ohio University/Athens

        "Where Appalachia meets the Midwest"--Anya Briggs



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 10:38:50 -0400

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Words that end in GRY



 

  In the past few weeks I've seen this unanswered puzzler pop up in three

  different circles. So excuse me while I introduce it to this circle which

  might be able to answer it.

 

  The English language has (at least) three words that end in GRY. "Angry" and

  "hungry" are two of them. What is the third, which purportedly is an everyday

  word?



AAAAaaaaargh!



Does _every corner_ of the Internet have to be saturated with this?



The answer to the riddle in the form you heard it (as opposed to the

form you're quoting) is either "what" or "three." It's a shaggy-dog

riddle. ("There are three words..." the question begins, and when the

question asks "what is the third word?" it's really asking "what is

the third word of the riddle?" Alternately, the question is asked

earlier in the riddle, and then the last line is "'What' is the

word.", declaratively--this version only works when heard orally.)



As for words that end in -gry, there are a whole bunch, none of them

common, including puggry, maugry, iggry, aggry, gry, and others, but

the best is _nugry,_ coined on rec.games.puzzles to mean 'the sort of

person who will ask the words ending in -gry question without

checking to see if five billion people have already asked it here

before'.



JTS



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 10:56:34 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Words that end in GRY



According to our handy departmental reverse dictionary, our only -gry word

besides 'angry' and 'hungry' is 'aggry'. An aggry bead (from the Edo, accord-

ing to Webster) is a variegated glass bead found buried in the earth in Ghana

and England, which strikes me as an odd natural class of places for glass beads

to be found buried in the earth of. In any case, a 'common, everyday word'

aggry isn't. Maybe there's another one the reverse dictionary missed.

     Any "gry-gry" (wo)men out there?



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 11:13:19 -0500

From:  "David A. Johns"  daj000[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FOX.WAY.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: packy?



When I was growing up in Berkshire County in the 50s and early 60s,

"package store" was the normal, term, and, I'm inclined to think,

the only one. At least I remember at some point thinking that

"liquor store" was a bit blunt, and this was probably when I left

the area in '66.



I've never heard "packy" -- my first reaction, influenced by the

voices I hear around me now, was that it meant tobacco.



David Johns



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 16:10:35 -0600

From:  "Gregory J. Pulliam"  gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU 

Subject: out-of-pocket



My father from Hannibal, Missouri tells me of a dispute he's involved in

regarding the term out-of-pocket. He and my mother, who's from Omaha, NE,

use the term to mean "not being where one is supposed to be," as in "I'm

sorry we couldn't be there but we were out-of-pocket."

A friend of his uses the term to mean "out-of money." My wife and I use

the term to mean "unexpected and immediate cash" expenses.

Does anybody have any dialect region inoformation about these terms, or

other supporting or diverging uses?

Greg Pulliam

gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu

Illinois Institute of Technology

Chicago



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 17:34:29 -0400

From:  "H Stephen Straight (Binghamton University,

     SUNY)"  sstraigh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BINGSUNS.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



The only use of out-of-pocket in my active vocabulary is to refer to

expenses incurred in the course of doing the boss's job for which an

employee may or may not receive reimbursement. In other words, a gift or

loan of money to get one's job done. Some hypothetical (i.e. fabricated)

examples: "You'll have to be out-of-pocket for that until you submit your

receipt." "You don't expect me to cover a flight to Beijing as an

out-of-pocket expense, do you?" "The only way to avoid out-of-pocket

purchase is to put in for a travel advance, but that takes a minimum of a

month." "I wish I could charge interest on my out-of-pocket balances."



I've heard out-of-pocket used in other ways but have never quite been

able to sort them out. Greg Pulliam's posting makes me understand why.



    H. Stephen STRAIGHT - Linguistic Biodata - for research use only

    Born in Ann Arbor, Michigan, 15 May 1943.

    Childhood caregivers all small-town Michigan-bred

      advance-degreed college English teachers (egad!).

    Early years (age 2-7) in downstate Illinois (Lincoln).

    Critical years in Chicago (Hyde Park, age 7-14) and Oak

      Park (age 14-18), Illinois--summers in Ann Arbor, MI.

      [Studied French, age 15-18.]

    College in Ann Arbor (age 18-22)--U Michigan BA in

      English & American Literature. [Studied French two

      years, German one year.]

    Graduate school in Chicago (age 22-27)--U Chicago MA and

      PhD in linguistics. [Received High Pass on Chicago's

      French and German graduate reading exams; studied

      Japanese for two academic quarters, Yucatec Maya for

      one year, Spanish for two months.]

    Lived one year (age 25-26) in Yucatan, Mexico. [Spoke

      Spanish and Yucatec Maya daily; lectured in Spanish

      to a (forgiving) university audience.]

    Ever since (age 27- ) in upstate New York--professing

      linguistics and anthropology at Binghamton U (SUNY).

    Lived one year (age 36-37) in Bucharest, Romania. [Spoke

      Romanian a little bit every day (studied semi-formally

      for about four months), French briefly every week.]

    Lived sixth months (age 52-53) in Washington, DC.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 16:52:11 -0500

From:  Tom Beckner  TMBECKNER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TAYLORU.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



Living in Georgia for several years, I often heard this term to mean something

similar to the usage your mother describes. It means "not available."



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 17:45:59 +0000

From:  Grant Barrett  gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM 

Subject: RE out-of-pocket



I'm also from Missouri, and I find "out of pocket" generally means "unpla=

nned" and is most often used in referring to money. "Unplanned" or "unexp=

ected" work in a general way in both your parents' uses, I think, though =

not as direct synonyms for "out of pocket".=20



Your parents might say "I'm sorry we couldn't be there because we were in=

 an unexpected place". Your friend might say "Those additional charges ar=

e for unexpected costs".



Unfortunately, I get the idea that "out of pocket" is one of those terms =

that has been used in one way so long that it will in the end only be use=

d to describe unexpected or unplanned expenses.=20



--------------------------------------

Date: 5/9/96 5:31 PM

To: Grant Barrett

From: Gregory J. Pulliam

My father from Hannibal, Missouri tells me of a dispute he's involved in

regarding the term out-of-pocket. He and my mother, who's from Omaha, NE=

,

use the term to mean "not being where one is supposed to be," as in "I'm

sorry we couldn't be there but we were out-of-pocket."

A friend of his uses the term to mean "out-of money." My wife and I use

the term to mean "unexpected and immediate cash" expenses.

Does anybody have any dialect region inoformation about these terms, or

other supporting or diverging uses?

Greg Pulliam

gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu

Illinois Institute of Technology

Chicago



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 17:13:20 PDT

From:  Duane Campbell  dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPIX.NET 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



--- On Thu, 9 May 1996 16:10:35 -0600 "Gregory J. Pulliam"

 gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU  wrote:



 My father from Hannibal, Missouri tells me of a dispute he's involved in

 regarding the term out-of-pocket. He and my mother, who's from Omaha, NE,

 use the term to mean "not being where one is supposed to be,"



Here in Pennsylvania I can think of three different ways out-of-pocket is

used, none of which (is? are?) the same as your father's.



1. A casual expense. If you run a business, most payments are made by check

from an invoice, but there are always small out-of-pocket expenses.



2. An expense you pay for which you expect to be reimbursed. If you run an

errand for someone, you'd be reimbursed for your out-of-pocket expenses.



3. As an adjective modifying a person, meaning he got stuck. He may have

expected to get reimbursed, but he ended up out-of-pocket.



RE: my confusion with "none" above. What is the proper verb form for a subject

that is neither singular nor plural? Singular means one. Plural means more

than one. "None" is neither. Does usage vary from region to region?







-------------------------------------

Duane Campbell

dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net



In the beginning the Earth was without form and void.

Why didn't they leave well enough alone?



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 17:41:27 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



  The only use of out-of-pocket in my active vocabulary is to refer to

  expenses incurred in the course of doing the boss's job for which an

  employee may or may not receive reimbursement. In other words, a gift or



With this meaning, I find that it's usually in an attributive slot,

preceding a noun like "expenses." In my experience, "out of pocket"

as a predicate adjective nearly always refers to a person and means

something like "not around at the moment."

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 9 May 1996 21:15:31 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



On Thu, 9 May 1996, Gregory J. Pulliam asked about regional variation in

the meaning of out-of-pocket. I have always used it to mean "not being

where one is supposed to be" or "so crazy-busy I just couldn't make it."

I have never heard it used to mean out of money.



Bethany, who can always use a new term for being out of cash



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 8 May 1996 to 9 May 1996

**********************************************





There are 14 messages totalling 321 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. out-of-pocket (5)

 2. singular 'we'

 3. a completely unangry response.. (2)

 4. words in -gry

 5. new word? (2)

 6. English Only Amendment (3)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 05:41:23 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



    The only use of out-of-pocket in my active vocabulary is to refer to

    expenses incurred in the course of doing the boss's job for which an

    employee may or may not receive reimbursement. In other words, a gift or

 

  With this meaning, I find that it's usually in an attributive slot,

  preceding a noun like "expenses." In my experience, "out of pocket"

  as a predicate adjective nearly always refers to a person and means

  something like "not around at the moment."

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



the "expenses" meaning is the only one i have, but it's not just pre-

nominal. it can be used adverbially, as in "we paid for the

refreshments out-of-pocket."



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 15:36:19 GMT

From:  ******  walker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MONZA.U-STRASBG.FR 

Subject: singular 'we'



This seems to be similar to a British use, such us ' Give us a hand', or

'Can you lend us 5 pounds', which are very common, in pretty much most

dialects, certainly in England (I'm English myself) and practically

always refer to an individual. I'm wondering whether

there is some kind of link between these phenomena.



Jim Walker

Universite de Strasbourg



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 09:39:53 -0600

From:  Joan Houston Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



DARE will have an entry for "out of (the) pocket" in volume IV (at "pocket").

It's labelled "chiefly Sth, S Midl" and defined 'Unavailable, absent, out of

place.' We have quite a few contemporary examples, but nothing earlier than

the late 1960s. So if anyone can come up with an earlier citation, or even

a recollection of the use of the phrase before that, I'd like to see it.

This usually refers to people rather than things, occurring in contexts such

as "I called you at home yesterday, but you were out of pocket." "I'm out

of the pocket for a bit, but will get back at ya." "I'll be out of pocket

for a few days, but you can leave a message on my machine."



Joan Hall

DARE



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 10:06:20 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



  place.' We have quite a few contemporary examples, but nothing earlier than

  the late 1960s. So if anyone can come up with an earlier citation, or even

  a recollection of the use of the phrase before that, I'd like to see it.



I would be surprised to learn that it didn't exist before the '60s, but

I don't trust my memory enough to swear that I used it or heard it before

then. It "feels" like an expression I've known all my life.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

   born in Jackson, Mississippi, in 1943



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 11:07:09 -0400

From:  Bryan Gick  bryan.gick[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU 

Subject: a completely unangry response..



  According to our handy departmental reverse dictionary, our only -gry word

  besides 'angry' and 'hungry' is 'aggry'. An aggry bead (from the Edo, accord-

  Larry



Ok. I feel inspired to (vainly attempt to) do away once and for all with

this annoying question - in a way appropriate to the kind of list we're

meeting on.



If the "riddle" answer of "WHAT" is truly the "intended" answer, then I

feel nothing but malice for its creator(s). The application, though, of

some creative morpholog(r?)y is a pretty satisfying way of supering it.

The way I've seen the question put is:



      There are 3 words in the english language

      that end with "GRY". One is HUNGRY and one of them is ANGRY.

      What is the third word ?

      If you have listened very closely I have already told you the 3rd word.



..in that case, the answer is "UNANGRY" (see header :) ) Also acceptable (if

less frequently used), therefore, is "UNHUNGRY."



Another handy affix is the "-y" ending, giving us "OGRY" (not to

be confused with "ogrish").

N.B.: This works only inasmuch as the "-y" ending is a

productive one in English (it certainly is for me..in the last week I've

heard: "This shake is very banana-y," and "This table is more desky than.."

Not to mention the subject heading of "Texan-y" on this very list the day

before yesterday). [A QUESTION: I have, though, noticed some dialecty

variation in the acceptabiliy of the -y suffix. Anybody know more??? BG]



The rest of the examples all use the many "-ry" endings. This is a pretty

productive ending in English, if kind of low profile. It can have lots of

meanings: (a) collective quality; (b) act, art or occupation; (c) place;

(d) aggregate; (e) occupation-specific equipment/materials; etc. From

these, we get such possibilities as (some work better than others):



(a)   striplingry (childishness)

    nidderingry (foolishness.. cf. foolery, etc.)

(b)   glazingry (the craft, art, etc., of glass-making)

    mortgagry

(c)   glazingry (a glass factory)

    sneeshingry (a snuffery)

    wildingry (a fruit tree farm)

    carriagry (a carriage manufacturer's)

(d)   eveningry (cf. finery, plumery...)

(e)   fowlingry (the stuff, knowledge, etc, used in/for birding)

    plumbingry

    fishingry

    whalingry

    huntingry

    etc..



My apologies for adding to the heap.



Bryan



/\----------------------------------------------------------

[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE][AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]|Bryan Gick           Department of Linguistics

   bgick[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]minerva.cis.yale.edu   Yale University

'/                 and Haskins Laboratories

W-----------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 11:10:08 EST

From:  Boyd Davis  FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



Like Natalie, I also "feel" that I've heard this all my life, but never

in collocations with people, only re. expenses.

Boyd Davis, born 1940 Louisville Ky, in NC since 1961.



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 10:27:04 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



  Like Natalie, I also "feel" that I've heard this all my life, but never

  in collocations with people, only re. expenses.



I didn't mean to include the re expenses meaning when I said I felt that

I'd known it all my life. I meant only in the sense of "I tried to find

John, but he seems to be out-of-pocket." I am pretty sure that I knew

that meaning long before I ever heard about "out-of-pocket expenses."

That, of course, may say nothing about which one was around first. I

wasn't as likely to be thinking about out-of-pocket expenses as a

child or teenager as I was about whether John might be out-of-pocket

when I was looking for him.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 10:50:12 -0500

From:  Dennis Baron  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU 

Subject: words in -gry



Thanks to Jesse's comments on the -gry phenom. My secretary asked me about

that just this week, and I've seen it come up on alt.usage.english recently

as well. I never realized it was a riddle--never really paid that much

attention to it, just assuming it was one of these recurring urban legend

type things. Now I'll know what to say when I'm asked. Maugry, btw, from

Frnech malgre', no, via AN?



Dennis



Dennis Baron                    debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Department of English           office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois              fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright Street             home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, IL 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 12:12:47 -0400

From:  David Muschell  dmuschel[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: new word?



I recently received a post inviting all technophobes to join "Luddites

On-Line." Now, not only is it a bit strange for an anti-technology group

to have its own homepage, but within the message was this line: "Our

user-friendly graphic interface allows you to discuss strategies for

undermining the growing cybourgeoisie..." Have any of you heard of

"cybourgeoisie" (the word, of course--we probably _are_ the labeled group)?



David



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 10:50:49 -0700

From:  "Thomas L. Clark"  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: English Only Amendment



A petition has just been filed in Nevada to pass an English Only

amendment. If you live in one of the twenty-six states which currently

have such a law, please write to me about the changes (for good or ill)

that have taken place in your state since the passage of the amendment.

I will soon be appearing before the state legislature and need some

useful information about how English Only worked in other states.

Thanks,



Thomas L. Clark         702/895-3473

University of Nevada, Las Vegas (89154-5011)

tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 14:37:07 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: new word?



I have never heard/read the word, "cybourgeoisie." I like it.



As you note, the strangest part of all is that the Luddites

have their own homepage.





**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

* Jeutonne_Brewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 14:44:39 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: English Only Amendment



North Carolina passed an English Only law in July, 1987. Shortly

after that the legislature passed a resolution that said in

effect that the legislature did not intend that the law would

deny rights to anyone. If you are making a distinction between

English Only and English as an Official Language, the NC law is

of the official language variety.



Since that time I think there has been mostly silence on the subject.

Most North Carolinians don't seem to know that the state has such a

law. That was certainly the case in my undergraduate class this

semester when we talked about English Only laws.



I have a copy of the NC law and the resolution. If you need or want

a copy, I will be glad to mail them to you.



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

* Jeutonne_Brewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 16:42:12 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: English Only Amendment



   If you live in one of the twenty-six states which currently

  have such a law, please write to me about the changes (for good or ill)

  that have taken place in your state since the passage of the amendment.



I think it was on ADS-L that this subject arose a couple of years ago

and somebody said that Mississippi is one of the twenty-six states with

such a law. If any changes have taken place here as a result of the

law, I'm not aware of them. My guess is that very few Mississippians

know we have such a law. I didn't until I read about it on ADS-L (or

possibly another e-mail list).

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 10 May 1996 21:47:20 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: a completely unangry response..



 From Bryan:

 Another handy affix is the "-y" ending, giving us "OGRY" (not to

 be confused with "ogrish").

 N.B.: This works only inasmuch as the "-y" ending is a

 productive one in English (it certainly is for me..in the last week I've

 heard: "This shake is very banana-y," and "This table is more desky

 than.."

 Not to mention the subject heading of "Texan-y" on this very list the

 day before yesterday).

_______________________________________

"He has to be the most derivative French painter I've ever seen. His still

lifes are downright Braquy, his interiors completely Matissy, and his nudes

totally Ingry."



   Larry



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 9 May 1996 to 10 May 1996

***********************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 54 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. out-of-pocket (2)

 2. intrusive or unintrusive /l/



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 11 May 1996 00:55:34 -0600

From:  "Gregory J. Pulliam"  gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



Thanks to all for the _out-of-pocket_ testimonials. You made my dad's day.

Greg Pulliam

Illinois Institute of Technology

Chicago



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 11 May 1996 13:19:54 -0400

From:  "Margaret G. Lee -English"  mlee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CS.HAMPTONU.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



In Friday's "Dear Abby" column, a reader wrote: "...the National Eye

Care Project (NECP) has offered medical eye care to America's low income

senior population for the past 10 years. Nearly 200,000 patients have

received care, at no _out-of-pocket_ cost to them."



--Margaret Lee

 Hampton University

 Hampton, VA



On Sat, 11 May 1996, Gregory J. Pulliam wrote:



  Thanks to all for the _out-of-pocket_ testimonials. You made my dad's day.

  Greg Pulliam

  Illinois Institute of Technology

  Chicago

 



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 11 May 1996 19:53:33 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: intrusive or unintrusive /l/



I have to admit I watched the Seinfeld show at 10:30 last night. Most of

the episode takes place in the health club an ADS-L member mentioned

last month, during the discussion re Dole and 3rd person self referencing.



Last night, Jerry and Kramer think that the man they see at the club

is Salman Rushdie. Later, Kramer tells Jerry it is Rushdie. He's sure

because when he asked the man his name, the man said he was "Sal Bass",

n

and that he's a writer. Kramer says Rushdie's substituting [baes] for

[saem[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]n] ([AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] = schwa), which is clever because he's kept it as a fish.





beth



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 10 May 1996 to 11 May 1996

************************************************



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From: Automatic digest processor  LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 11 May 1996 to 13 May 1996

To: Recipients of ADS-L digests  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Content-Type: text

Content-Length: 10601

Status: R



There are 8 messages totalling 258 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Callaway/O'Connor Chair Ad

 2. Dictionary-Thumping (2)

 3. Meanwhile, back at the ranch... (2)

 4. intrusive or unintrusive /l/

 5. RE Meanwhile, back at the ranch... (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 13:07:09 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Callaway/O'Connor Chair Ad



Here is a job advertisement that we would appreciate having circulated in

English departments. Thanks for your help.



Wayne Glowka





 

 The Fuller E. Callaway Endowed Flannery O'Connor Chair

 in Creative Writing

 

 Department of English, Speech, and Journalism

 Georgia College

 Milledgeville, Georgia 31061

 

 Established fiction writers are invited to submit applications for a

 tenure-track appointment to the Fuller E. Callaway Endowed Flannery

 O'Connor Chair in Creative Writing at Georgia College, Milledgeville,

 Georgia 31061. Georgia College, with an enrollment of approximately 5,700

 students and a liberal arts focus, is a senior comprehensive college in the

 University System of Georgia. It is the alma mater of Flannery O'Connor

 and the repository of the O'Connor manuscripts. The Callaway/O'Connor

 Chair offers a unique opportunity for a fiction writer to pursue his or her

 craft in the lovely antebellum capital of Georgia. Milledgeville has a

 population of 18,675, and Baldwin County has a population of 41,086.

 Located in central Georgia, Milledgeville affords easy access to the cities

 of Macon and Atlanta.

 

 Applicants must possess the following criteria: (1) recognized

 distinction in the field of fiction writing, (2) a record of outstanding

 teaching and demonstrated proficiency in the use of various teaching

 techniques, including technology-based applications, (3) recognized success

 in working with students to achieve high levels of learning and with

 faculty to stimulate the desire to improve teaching and learning, and (4)

 the ability to provide workshops and peer support. The Callaway/O'Connor

 Professor will teach two thirds of a full-time course load each quarter,

 with the remaining one-third time being used to serve as a catalyst among

 faculty for fostering improved teaching and learning campus wide.

 

 The Callaway/O'Connor Professorship is a nine-month, tenure-track

 appointment at the rank of professor, effective September 1, 1996.

 Applications will be received until July 1, 1996, or until position is

 filled. Salary $70,000 plus fringe benefits. Send letter of application,

 official transcripts of all college course work, three letters of

 recommendation, and a vita to Dr. R. B. Jenkins, Chairman, Department of

 English, Speech, and Journalism, CBX 44, Georgia College, Milledgeville,

 Georgia 31061. Georgia College is an affirmative action/equal opportunity

 employer, ADA. Women, African-Americans, and other minorities are

 encouraged to apply.

 

 

 

 

 Dr. Ronald Bradford Jenkins, Chairman

 Department of English, Speech, and Journalism

 Georgia College

 Milledgeville, Georgia 31061

 Telephone 912-453-4581; GIST 324-4581

 FAX 912-454-0873

 rjenkins[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu

 

 

 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 15:02:15 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Dictionary-Thumping



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 08:46:26 PDT

From: Brian Reid  reid[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mejac.palo-alto.ca.us 



 snip 

 3. My opinion was that he was engaging in dictionary-thumping. This

  is like bible-thumping, but instead of saying "it says here in

  the bible that you are a bad person" he was saying "it says here

  in the dictionary that you are a bad person." Book thumpers are,

  in my opinion, too cowardly to stand up for their own beliefs, so

  they brandish the book instead. This technique is the rhetorical

  equivalent of Edgar Bergen's use of Charlie McCarthy to speak for

  him.

-----end forwarded message-----



Until I read the post from which the paragraph above comes, I had never

heard the phrase "dictionary-thumping." I like it. Are others familiar

with it?



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 14:14:25 -0500

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Meanwhile, back at the ranch...



Is anyone else familiar with the above phrase?



In my universe, it is fairly popular.

But I've been trying, to no avail,

to trace its evolution and locate its origin.



Can anyone provide me with information

on the earliest citation of the above phrase?



Thanks, cowboys and cowgirls. =ȧ



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 312.996.8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX    ;

;URL: http://www2.uic.edu/depts/langlab/          ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 15:22:23 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: intrusive or unintrusive /l/



In a message dated 96-05-11 20:54:31 EDT, you write:



 Last night, Jerry and Kramer think that the man they see at the club

 is Salman Rushdie. Later, Kramer tells Jerry it is Rushdie. He's sure

 because when he asked the man his name, the man said he was "Sal Bass",

 n

 and that he's a writer. Kramer says Rushdie's substituting Íbaesß for

 Ísaem[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nß ([AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] = schwa), which is clever because he's kept it as a fish.



I saw it too, and Jerry was quick to point out to Kramer that his theory was

stupid because its pronounced SAM not SAL, but I was reminded that I knew

this guy from NYC who did say SAL m[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]n, and how surprised I was by that. Was

this an idiosyncracy or is it more widespread?



Dale Coye

The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching

Princeton



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 16:01:41 +0000

From:  Grant Barrett  gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM 

Subject: RE Meanwhile, back at the ranch...



I think it's a paraphrase from Orwell's 1984, which says something along =

the lines of "back at the farm".=20



I could be way off, but I don't have the book near, so I'll just throw it=

 out there.



--------------------------------------

From: Kathleen M. O'Neill

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Is anyone else familiar with the above phrase?



In my universe, it is fairly popular.

But I've been trying, to no avail,

to trace its evolution and locate its origin.



Can anyone provide me with information

on the earliest citation of the above phrase?



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 16:02:12 PDT

From:  Duane Campbell  dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPIX.NET 

Subject: Re: RE Meanwhile, back at the ranch...



 From: Kathleen M. O'Neill

 Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

 Is anyone else familiar with the above phrase?



It goes back to silent movies, at least. You would see the posse chasing the

rustlers across the range, then a screen would come on -- white on black --

saying "Meanwhile, back at the ranch . . ." and the film would cut to the guy

with the black moustache putting the moves on the school marm. (My spell

checker says that's a "school marmot", but that must be for more progressive

schools than I attended.) As a cliche, it was still popular in horse operas of

the forties.





Duane Campbell

dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net



In the beginning the Earth was without form and void.

Why didn't they leave well enough alone?



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 15:29:14 -0600

From:  Kat Rose  Kat.Rose[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SPOT.COLORADO.EDU 

Subject: Meanwhile, back at the ranch...



The earliest use of which I am aware is in titles (text frames) of silent

movies, but it seems reasonable to wonder if this device was used in serial

stories of "the wild West" that were printed in magazines in the 19th and

early 20th centuries.



This doesn't answer your question, but perhaps it will help.



[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] -- ---

Kat Rose   Kat.Rose[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]spot.Colorado.edu

My words, my rights, my responsibility



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 13 May 1996 19:10:39 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Dictionary-Thumping



On Mon, 13 May 1996, Tom Creswell asked that I "post the entire message

from which the "dictinnary thumper" paagraph was extracted." Tom said

further that he has



  some doubts about the accuracy of the analogy between quoting the

  bible as a source of information and doing the same with a dictionary.

  Sounds to me like the writer just lost an argument and was trying to

  rationalize his indefensible position.

 

Tom, I could do that, but I don't think it would help. The post was part

of a rather long essay explaining why a listmember had been kicked off

the list. One reason many listmembers (including me) had found the person in

question obnoxious was that he attacked many individuals, using words

that many of us found highly objectionable. When challenged, the

individual quoted dictionary definitions, ostensibly to show that he was

using what he called the "technical definitions" of words. He was, in

other words, ignoring connotative meanings of words in favor of narrowly

denotative ones. In my opinion, the poster I quoted was 100% justified in

taking the stand and action that he did. It would take many postings to

establish the full context, and I would have to get the permission of

many posters, including someone who has been banned from the list for at

least a month.



And all I was interested in was whether others had heard the phrase

"dictionary-thumper" in the same sense.



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 11 May 1996 to 13 May 1996

************************************************



There are 10 messages totalling 269 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Streak (2)

 2. packy?

 3. "Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...," (4)

 4. out-of-pocket (2)

 5. English Only Amendment



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 09:44:59 -0500

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Streak



Sorry to cross-post, but this was on

the Linguist list, and I thought someone

from this bunch might have an answer.



----Begin Forwarded Message----

 Date:     Mon, 13 May 1996 23:46:02 -0500

 From:     The Linguist List  linguist[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tam2000.tamu.edu 

 Subject:   7.690, Qs: E-mail,"Streak", Applied, Dative/Essive, Discourse

 

 Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 12:10:02 MDT

 From: hcannon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macalstr.edu (Heather Cannon)

 Subject: etymology of "streak"

 

 Members,

 

 I am trying to find the etymology of the phrase "to streak", meaning

 to run naked. A prof here at Macalester College claims that the

 phrase originated here, but I can't find any proof to back that up -

 or to disprove it. The dictionaries I have checked don't even list

 this as a meaning of "streak" so I guess it's slang, though certainly

 in common usage -- especially here at Mac where it's a popular

 pasttime. :)

 

 Any help or leads would be very much appreciated.

 

 Thank you.

 

 Heather Cannon

 hcannon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macalstr.edu



----End Forwarded Message----



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 312.996.8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX    ;

;URL: http://www2.uic.edu/depts/langlab/          ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 11:37:38 -0400

From:  "Christopher R. Coolidge"  ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: packy?



 I lived in Amherst, MA for the better part of the 80's myself, and the

word "packy" was so ubiquitous when referring to going on a booze run

that I was surprised to not hear it anywhere else. I never hear it in

Vermont, where I now live. I'm not even sure what the equivalent here is,

since I haven't had a drink in years and I know very few people well here

who drink more than occasionally.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 12:20:25 -0600

From:  Samuel Jones  smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: "Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...,"



 Is anyone else familiar with the above phrase?

 



Miz O'Neill, ma'am,



YUP!



 In my universe, it is fairly popular.



MAHN, TOO! 'N HAS BEEN FER YERS 'N YERS.



 But I've been trying, to no avail,

 to trace its evolution and locate its origin.

 



AH SUSpect HOLLYWOOD WRITERS, MA'AM.



 Can anyone provide me with information

 on the earliest citation of the above phrase?

 



Don' rightly know. Ma'am, eff'n this be THUH "earliest," but



Ah 'stinctly 'member this pertikuhler phrase appurring awun



the motion picture THEater screen, in mah liddle ole Oklahoma



town, adurin' them-there rousin' (now-vintage), 13-week-long,



Saturday-mornin', cowboy-shoot-'em-up serials, in which



the hero always wore uh white haejuht, 'n rode a white horse,



uh palomino, or jes' maybe uhn Appaloosa. Yee HAH!!





 Thanks, cowboys and cowgirls. =ȧ

 



Right tole'ble proud tuh be uv hep, ma'am.



samjones



____________________________________________________________________________

DR. SAMUEL M. JONES          INTERNET: smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu

Prof. of Music & Latin American Studies TELNET: samjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu

5434 Humanities Building          FAX: 608 + 262-8876 (UW)

455 North Park Street

__________________________________________

University of Wisconsin-Madison TELEPHONES: 608 + 263-1900 (UW-Lv. message)

Madison, WI 53706-1483          * 608 + 263-1924 * (UW-Office -

                        * VOICE MAIL--Lv message)



____________________________________________________________________________

"Pen-y-Bryn"          TELEPHONES: 608 + 233-2150 (Home)

122 Shepard Terrace             608 + 233-4748 (Home)

Madison, WI 53705-3614

____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 12:39:32 -0600

From:  Joan Houston Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



For those of you who know "out of pocket" to mean 'unavailable, out of the

usual place' (as in "I'll be out of pocket for a week, but you can leave a

message on my machine"), are you also familiar with the analogical "in

pocket"? We have only one example: "We called to tell her that we are

going to be in Texas over the Christmas break and want to come by to visit.

Her reply was, "Sure, y'all come on by. We'll be in pocket then."



Thanks--

Joan Hall, DARE



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 11:46:24 PDT

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: Re: "Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...,"



Back in my high school days, late fifties, we had a whole series of humorous,

in a sophomoronic way, "meanwhile, back the"'s. The only one that I remember

today is, "meanwhile back at the oasis, the Arabs were eating their dates".



You had to be there.



Even Looney Tunes liked that one. A Bugs Bunny comic published around then,

that had a panel with the caption, "Meanwhile back at the oasis, ...". In the

panel were a couple of sheiks standing around a palm tree in a desert, all

munching on some small piece of fruit, with one saying in a balloon box,

"Hmmm, these dates are really good!"



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 14:00:14 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: out-of-pocket



  For those of you who know "out of pocket" to mean 'unavailable, out of the

  usual place' (as in "I'll be out of pocket for a week, but you can leave a

  message on my machine"), are you also familiar with the analogical "in

  pocket"? We have only one example: "We called to tell her that we are



I offer myself as one negative datum. I consider "out of pocket" =

"unavailable" quite well known and ordinary but have never heard "in

pocket."

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 14:01:37 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: "Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...,"



  Back in my high school days, late fifties, we had a whole series of humorous,

  in a sophomoronic way, "meanwhile, back the"'s. The only one that I remember

  today is, "meanwhile back at the oasis, the Arabs were eating their dates".



  You had to be there.



I was. Jackson, Mississippi, high school graduation 1961. I remember

"meanwhile back at the oasis" well.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 15:26:07 -0500

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: "Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...,"



   But I've been trying, to no avail,

   to trace its evolution and locate its origin.



I have a vague impression that it's from a western radio serial, probably

the Lone Ranger. I don't know where I _got_ this impression,

though--possibly from my uncle, who was one of the LR shows juvenile voices

for a while and eventually wrote his dissertation on it. On the other

hand, I may have invented the connection entirely. If I can get hold

of Uncle Dave to ask I'll let you know what he says.



Kate Catmull          kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 21:32:34 -0500

From:  Dennis Baron  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU 

Subject: Re: English Only Amendment



Illinois has had an official language since 1923, when American was

declared the language of the state. This law was put through by an

anti-British coalition of Irish and Jewish Chicago pols, who wanted to

express their displeasure at the treatment by the mother country of Ireland

and Palestine.

In 1969 the law was quietly amended to make _English_ the official

language. But it has had no practical effect. It is laws like that of

Arizona, which the US Supreme Court has recently agreed to review, that can

actually be punitive. The AZ law forbids government employees from using

any language other than English in the course of their jobs. It was

declared unconstitutional on 1st amendment grounds by the US Circuit Court.

The Supreme Court will also rule on the broader issue of whether states

can make laws establishing an official language.



Copies of federal legislation currently being considered (the Language of

Government Act and constitutional amendments, together with comments by

supporters and opponents which appear in the Congressional Record, are

available on Thomas, the Library of Congress Web Site. I have just received

a transcript of the hearings held last October on language legislation.



Dennis

--



Dennis Baron                    debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Department of English           office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois              fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright Street             home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, IL 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 23:18:47 -0400

From:  Al Futrell  awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HOMER.LOUISVILLE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Streak



On Tue, 14 May 1996, Kathleen M. O'Neill wrote:



   I am trying to find the etymology of the phrase "to streak", meaning

   to run naked. A prof here at Macalester College claims that the

   phrase originated here, but I can't find any proof to back that up -



I think almost every college in the country claims to have coined the

term. We did it in Louisville in the early 70's. Some guy even streaked

the Carson show once (or was it the academy awards?).



Al Futrell

-- awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]homer.louisville.edu

-- http://www.louisville.edu/~awfutr01

Dept of Communication -- University of Louisville



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 13 May 1996 to 14 May 1996

************************************************



There are 12 messages totalling 311 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Streak (5)

 2. Willing to Risk Spam?

 3. to streak

 4. biff (2)

 5. send=public (3)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 00:19:30 -0600

From:  "Gregory J. Pulliam"  gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.ACC.IIT.EDU 

Subject: Re: Streak



Can streaking really be back so soon? I hope MacAlester's not indicative

of a trend in this case. Given todays body piercing fad, I can see how

streaking in the 90's could be trickier than it was in the 70s.

Greg Pulliam

Chicago



Gregory Pulliam

Illinois Institute of Technology

Chicago, IL

gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.acc.iit.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 06:32:51 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Willing to Risk Spam?



I'm going to be out of town for about five days soon and am probably not

going to take my computer since access would be costly. (This will be

the first time I've been away from the net for that long in years.) I

was thinking that maybe I should set ADS-L to "send=public" again for

that period in case somebody on the list has an address problem. So far,

very few people seem to have had problems, but occasionally there is one --

e.g., many of the Georgetown people on ADS-L subscribed when their system

was throwing an 'acc' into the from line that's no longer there. Are

y'all willing to live with the risk of spam for those days?



The gopher/ftp/web archives will also be behind while I'm gone. Someday

I'm going to find time to get into the teach-yourself-perl-scripting book

I bought so that I can automate some of the daily log-compiling that I

do for ADS-L.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 07:57:36 -0400

From:  Margaret Ronkin  ronkinm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUSUN.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: to streak



    It's funny to feel that I'm history, but I don't mind sharing the

reply that I sent to Heather at Macalester.



________________________________________________________________________



Dear Heather,



    I am writing in response to your posting on _Linguist_, asking

for help with the etymology of "to streak". The information that I have

comes from the following source:



Partridge, Eric. 1984. A dictionary of slang and unconventional English...

Paul Beale (ed.). London, Melbourne, and Henley: Routledge & Kegan Paul.

p. 1165.



streak, v. occ. streek... To go very fast: 1768, 'Helenore' Ross, 'ÍSheß

forward did streak';..., in late C.19, coll. Prob ex flashes of lightening.

The form "to streak it" is U.S. --2. By specialization, 'To scurry stark

naked through a public place or assembly as a form of protest against

some grievance' (R.S. 1974), or 'trying to prove a point, or out of sheer

exhibitionism' (P.B.); whence "streaking", the vbl n., and "streaker" one

who does this: s. in 1973; both nn. and v. were, by 1975, coll. and, by

1976, S.E. It was a phenomenon of the early 1970s, with subsequent echoes.



R.S. = Ramsey Spencer

P.B. = Paul C. Beale, editor of the present dictionary



                 ***



    I doubt that the term was invented at Mac, since this entry says

it was slang in 1973, and I was studying at Mac then; that's about when

streaking caught on there big time. If you check old (early 1970s) issues

of the _Mac Weekly_, you'll find write-ups on various humorous episodes.

(I'm proud/embarassed to say that I was involved/written up).



    Thanks for making me feel sooo old, Heather, and good luck with

your research!



Maggie



________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 08:17:02 -0400

From:  David Muschell  dmuschel[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: Streak



Having been recently graduated when the first streakers were exposed here

in Georgia, I wasn't there at the event(s); however, from my understanding,

the term derived from the rapidity of movement of said bare ones. Unlike

strippers whose purpose is slow removal of garments, streakers are

"pre-buffed" and zip quickly past their intended audience, streaking by.

Avoidance of arrest seemed to be the primary motivation, though perhaps the

speed and tendency of viewers to focus on "forbidden" body parts gave the

undressed hopes of remaining incognito.



David



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 17:26:56 -0400

From:  "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783"  BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: biff



On my American English class's listserv, a student wrote:



"As Dr. Bergdahl was talking about words that people biff, such as

Pulitzer Surprise, one such word came to my mind. Actually, I almost

biffed it when I was typing it in a friend's e-mail message today. The

word is this morning, but for some reason, in my head, I couldn't think

how to spell it because I was thinking of this smorning, which is how it

sounds when you say it. As a result, I almost typed it in like that. I

had to think twice before I typed it in and then realized it was this

morning. I was wondering if anyone else out there has the same problem as

I with certain words. Respond back if you do."



I'd never met "biff" before: anyone else familiar with it? The reference

is to Pinker's discussion of what we on this list have been calling

Mondegreens.



    ______________________________________________________

    David Bergdahl     BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

    Associate Professor of English Language and Literature

    Ohio University / Athens      fax: (614) 593-2818

    ______________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 15:42:30 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: send=public



My only response to this morning's query was one saying that "send=

public" setting was fine. So as of a few minutes ago, ADS-L is back

to that status. Let's hope May isn't a favorite month for spamming.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 17:11:16 -0400

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: biff



 

  On my American English class's listserv, a student wrote:

 

  "As Dr. Bergdahl was talking about words that people biff, such as

  Pulitzer Surprise, one such word came to my mind. Actually, I almost

  biffed it when I was typing it in a friend's e-mail message today. The

  word is this morning, but for some reason, in my head, I couldn't think

  how to spell it because I was thinking of this smorning, which is how it

  sounds when you say it. As a result, I almost typed it in like that. I

  had to think twice before I typed it in and then realized it was this

  morning. I was wondering if anyone else out there has the same problem as

  I with certain words. Respond back if you do."

 

  I'd never met "biff" before: anyone else familiar with it? The reference

  is to Pinker's discussion of what we on this list have been calling

  Mondegreens.



Pamela Munro's 1989 _U.C.L.A. Slang_ has an entry for _biff_ 'fail (an

examination)', which I suspect is simply an overly specific definition.

The word must mean 'screw up', broadly. I've heard a few other

examples.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 14:06:52 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: Streak



On Wed, 15 May 1996, David Muschell wrote:



  Having been recently graduated when the first streakers were exposed here

  in Georgia, I wasn't there at the event(s); however, from my understanding,

  the term derived from the rapidity of movement of said bare ones. Unlike

  strippers whose purpose is slow removal of garments, streakers are

  "pre-buffed" and zip quickly past their intended audience, streaking by.

  Avoidance of arrest seemed to be the primary motivation, though perhaps the

  speed and tendency of viewers to focus on "forbidden" body parts gave the

  undressed hopes of remaining incognito.

 

  David

 



As I recall it from the early 70s in Tennessee (though newspaper reports

indicated it was a national phenomenon), one thing the streakers DID keep

covered was their face - typically using a paper bag, with eye holes, over

their head. This must have been hazardous in some respects, but it did

(supposedly) keep them anonymous.



The fad prompted at least one popular song, "They Call Him The Streak"

(at least that was the first line of the chorus).



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 17:21:28 -0400

From:  TERRY IRONS  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: send=public



I like getting junk e-missives myself. Spam has interesting possiblities

as a dietary supplement. Besides, it makes for a fun day. And I do have

a delete key, which I use often!?!



I know that we have specific scholarly concerns, to which this list is

devoted, but can every subscriber say that every post hir has made fits

that ADS concern? So who are we to join the censorship campaign?



Support free speech on the internet. Wear a blue ribbon.



My may day tirade was in earnest. Sorry to have abused you so, but it

did spark interesting replys, which were germaine to variationist study

even if my post was not.



By the way, Natalie, when you learn enough about Perl/CGI on your own,

clue me in. I empathize with your absence: I can't afford long

distance/lack of remote telnet logins either. Give us a vacation tale on

your return.



Terry







(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 16:27:40 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Streak



  indicated it was a national phenomenon), one thing the streakers DID keep

  covered was their face - typically using a paper bag, with eye holes, over



The ones I saw at Mississippi State revealed all -- no face-coverings.

My favorite streaking episode was one that occurred several months after

the fad had ended. Some Ed Psych faculty were having a party across the

street from where I was at a huge party of English faculty and others.

A couple of the Ed Psych people decided it would be fun to streak our

party. They did not, however, realize how jam-packed the house was.

They got in the door, stark naked, and then got stuck in the crowd and

had to inch their way through very slowly, with all kinds of funny comments

being made about their bodies. One of them was from out of town, but the

other was a faculty member here, who was around until just a few years ago.

In all those years between the streaking night and when he left, every

time I saw him, I thought of him naked.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 16:34:50 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: send=public



  I know that we have specific scholarly concerns, to which this list is

  devoted, but can every subscriber say that every post hir has made fits

  that ADS concern? So who are we to join the censorship campaign?



All of my postings are strictly scholarly -- like the one I just sent

about the Ed Psych streaker...



  By the way, Natalie, when you learn enough about Perl/CGI on your own,

  clue me in. I empathize with your absence: I can't afford long

  distance/lack of remote telnet logins either. Give us a vacation tale on

  your return.



And y'all start thinking about what we can do about ADS archives (ADS-L

should be easier) if I'm in Japan for a year (May '97 - May '98), with

a commercial net provider that charges for online time and with telnet

that would be impossibly slow for editing gopher/ftp/web files on the

other side of the world. But we don't need to worry about it yet. It

will be sometime fall semester before I know whether I'm going -- if I

pursue it at all.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 15:16:10 -0500

From:  Tom Beckner  TMBECKNER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TAYLORU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Streak



I can't speak to the origins of "streak" at Macalester, but it was a brief

but popular activity during the early 1970's, c. 1973-74. There was

even a streaker at the Academy Awards show. The term would seem to be a

natural adaptation of streak as used to describe lightening, for instance,

or any narrow band of light, and of course a sterak of luck had long been

a brief duration. By the way, Webster's Tenth does list this as ""to run

naked through a public place (p.1163), and the 3rd edition of the American

Heritage dictionary has one usage: "move at a high speed; rush" which it

attributes to Middle Eng. "streke' (line) from Old Eng. "strica," which would

also make the usage you describe a natural evolution. What dictionary are

you using there?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 14 May 1996 to 15 May 1996

************************************************



There are 4 messages totalling 462 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. 10.28 conference call

 2. biff (2)

 3. Streaking--1960s



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 16 May 1996 03:10:37 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: 10.28 conference call



in case anyone's interested...



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Date:  Wed, 15 May 1996 21:32:40 -0400 (EDT)

Reply-To: mccarty[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phoenix.Princeton.EDU

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From:  Humanist  mccarty[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phoenix.Princeton.EDU 

To: Humanist Discussion Group  humanist[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]lists.Princeton.EDU 

Subject: 10.28 conference call

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        Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 10, No. 28.

  Center for Electronic Texts in the Humanities (Princeton/Rutgers)

    Information at http://www.princeton.edu/~mccarty/humanist/



 Í1ß  From:  Dr Tony McEnery  mcenery[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]comp.lancs.ac.uk      (248)

    Subject: Teaching and Language Corpora 96



             CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS



        TALC96 - TEACHING AND LANGUAGE CORPORA



        Lancaster University, UK, 9th-12th August, 1996



INCLUDED IN THIS EMAIL:



    General Details

    Provisional Programme

    Registration Details



AIMS OF THE CONFERENCE



While the use of computer text corpora in research is now well

established, they are now being used increasingly for teaching

purposes. This includes the use of corpus data to inform and create

teaching materials; it also includes the direct exploration of corpora

by students, both in the study of linguistics and of foreign

languages. Talc96 will build upon the success of Talc94, which brought

together researchers and teachers who are involved in such work, to

take part in an international exchange of current experience and

expertise.



THEMES



KEY THEME: Talc96 will have a special focus on evaluating the claims

made for corpora in linguistics and language teaching.



OTHER THEMES: which the conference is expected to cover include -



1.) The use of corpora in student led learning and investigation.

2.) Software for corpus based language and linguistics learning.

3.) Developing corpora for teaching purposes.

4.) The exploitation of corpus based teaching and learning materials.

5.) The theory and practice of corpus based teaching and learning.



Papers presented at the conference will be of the typical 20 minutes

talk plus ten minutes of questions format.





WORKSHOPS



Talc96 will also host several workshops related to teaching and

language corpora. To give an example of what those workshops may be,

Talc94 had a variety of workshops such as "Multilingual Corpus

Building" and "Concordancing and Corpus Retrieval". Workshops will be

of one to two hour duration.





----------------------------------------------------------------------

        TALC96 - Provisional Programme.





            Day One (9th August):





09.00 - 13.00:



Registration and Welcome.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

13.00 - 15.00: General Issues in Teaching and Language Corpora I



1. Issues in Applied Corpus Linguistics, Lynne Flowerdew, Hong Kong

University of Science and Technology

2. Corpus Linguistics - evaluating the diffusion of an innovation,

Chris Kennedy, University of Birmingham

3. Concordancing in English Language Teaching, Bernhard Kettemann,

University of Graz

4. The Role of the Corpus Based 'Phrasicon' in English Language

Teaching, Stephen Magee, University of St Andrews and Michael Rundell



------------------------------------------------------------------------

15.00 - 15.30:     Refreshments Break



------------------------------------------------------------------------

15.30 - 17.00: Creating Materials and Tests



1. CALL Materials Derived from Integrating 'Expert' and 'Interlanguage'

Corpora Findings, Lynne Flowerdew, Hong Kong University of Science and

Technology

2. Multilingual concordance-based exercise types, Francine Roussel,

University of Nancy

3. Using Corpus Word Frequency Data in the Automatic Generation of

English Language Cloze Tests, David Coniam, Chinese University of Hong

Kong



------------------------------------------------------------------------

19.00      Dinner

------------------------------------------------------------------------





            Day Two (10th August)





9.00-11.00:  Parallel Corpora in Language Teaching and Translation



1. Parallel Texts in Language Teaching, Michael Barlow, Rice University

2. Corpora and Terminology: Software for the Translation Programme at

Goteborg University, Pernilla Danielson and Daniel Ridings, Goteborg

University

3. Parallel and Comparable Bilingual Corpora in Language Teaching and

Learning, Carol Peters, CNR, Pisa.

4. COSMAS - a multipurpose system for the exploitation of text corpora,

F Bodmer, J Cloeren and R Neumann, Institut fur Deutsche Sprache and

Royal Spanish Academy



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

11.00      Refreshments Break

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



11.30 - 13.00:   Teaching Languages other than English Using Corpora



1. An Experiment in the Learning of French through Corpus Linguistics,

Glyn Holmes, University of Western Ontario

2. A Corpus for Teaching Portuguese, A. Berber Sardinha, University of

Liverpool

3. Research into the Functions of Particles in a Corpus, Marta

Fernandez-Villaneuva



------------------------------------------------------------------------

13.00          Lunch



------------------------------------------------------------------------

14.30-18.00:  Workshops (Parallel Sessions)



Parallel Workshop Session A



Michael Barlow (Rice University) "ParaConc" (14:30 - 16:00) Chris

Tribble (Lancaster University): "Developing Corpora for Teaching

Purposes" (14:30 - 16:00)



Parallel Workshop Session B



Philip King, Tim Johns, David Wools (Birmingham University): "The

Lingua Project - Parallel Concordancing"  (16:00 - 18:00) Knut

Hofland, "The ICAME Archive & Concordancing" (Bergen University)

(16:00 - 18:00)



--------------------------------------------------------------------

19.00:         Dinner

--------------------------------------------------------------------





            Day Three (11th August)



9.00-11.00:   Corpora in Supporting ESP/EAP



1. Encouraging Students to Explore Language and Culture in Early Modern

English Pamphlets, Josef Schmied, University of Chemnitz

2. The Ideology of Science as a Collocation: how Corpus Linguistics can

Expand the Boundaries of Genre Analysis, Chris Gledhill, Aston

University

3. Corpora, Genre Analysis and Dissertation Writing: An Evaluation of

the Potential of Corpus-Based Techniques in the Study of Academic

Writing, Chris Carne, University of Reading

4. Investigating Grounding Across Narrative and Oral Discourse with

Students, Tony Jappy, University of Perpignan



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

11.00:         Refreshments

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



11.30 - 13.00:   Corpora Supporting Aspects of Language Pedagogy



1. Roberta Facchinetti: The exploration of English diachronic corpora by

foreign language students

2. Paul Bowden, Mark Edwards, Peter Halstead and Tony Rose: Knowledge

extraction from corpora for pedagogical applications

3. Mary-Ellen Okurowski: Using Authentic Corpora and Language Tools for

Adult-Centered Learning



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

13.00          Lunch

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



14.30-16.00:  Corpora and Student Writing



1. Exploiting Learner Corpus Data in the Classroom: Form Focused

Instruction and Data Driven Learning, Sylviane Granger, Universite

Catholique de Louvain

2. Approaching the Assessment of Performance Unit Archive of

Schoolchildren's Writing from the Point of View of Corpus Linguistics,

M. Shimazumi & A Berber Sardinha, University of Liverpool

3. Teaching L1 and L2 composition in a multicultural environment,

Robert Faingold, University of Tulsa.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

16.00:         Refreshments

----------------------------------------------------------------------



16.30-18.00:  Special Session on the British National Corpus



16:30 The British National Corpus as a Language Learner Resource, Guy

Aston,University of Bologna

17:00 An Introduction to Retrieval from the BNC Using Sara, Lou

Burnard, OUCS.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

19.00          Dinner

----------------------------------------------------------------------

21.00:         Software Demonstrations

----------------------------------------------------------------------





            Day Four (12th August)



9 am-11.00:   Corpus Resources and Systems



1. Teaching Terminology Using Corpora, Jennifer Pearson, Dublin City

University

2. A Textual Clues Approach for Generating Metaphors as Explanations by

an Intelligent Tutoring System, V. Prince & S. Ferrari, LIMSI-CNRS

3. Designing a CALL System Using Corpora for Speakers of Cantonese,

John Milton, City University Hong Kong

4. Marrying VERBALIST to concordance data, John Higgins, University of

Stirling



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

11.00:         Refreshments

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

11.30-13.00:  General Issues in Teaching and Language Corpora II



1. Evaluating Corpora - are we Asking the Right Questions?, Marina

Dossena, Bergamo University

2. Corpus Linguistics as an Academic Subject, Ourania Hatzidaki,

University of Birmingham

3. A Corpus Based Description of Headline Grammar, John Morley,

University of Sienna



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

13.00-14.30:          Lunch

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



14.30:             Close of Conference



-----------------------------------------------------------------------





=======================================================================



        TALC96 REGISTRATION.

        ====================



To register, you may either:



1. Send this form by surface mail to:



        TALC96,

        Department of Linguistics and

        Modern English Language,

        Lancaster University,

        Bailrigg,

        Lancaster LA1 4YT

        United Kingdom



2. Or fax it to:    +44 - 1524 - 843085



3. Or email it to:   mcenery[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]computing.lancaster.ac.uk

            or mcenery[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]comp.lancs.ac.uk



4. Or fill in the interactive form on the World Wide Web at the URL

http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/research/ucrel/talc/



Please register BEFORE 1st June 1996, otherwise we cannot guarantee

availability of accommodation.



The fee for TALC96 includes the following:



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Accommodation on 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th August

Meals: 9th August: afternoon coffee and dinner

    10th August: breakfast plus mid-morning coffee, lunch, afternoon

    coffee and dinner.

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    coffee and dinner.

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University main campus.



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payable to 'Lancaster University'. Sterling money orders can also be

used for payment, and must be made payable to 'Lancaster University'.

US Dollar cheques are also acceptable, using a fixed exchange rate of

1.5 $US to the Pound. Unfortunately, we cannot accept credit card

payments.



================================================================



        REGISTRATION FORM

        =================



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________________________________________________________________________





Local Organising Committee



Gerry Knowles  -    Lancaster University, UK

Tony McEnery  -    Lancaster University, UK

Anne Wichmann  -    Central Lancashire University, UK

Simon Botley  -    Lancaster University, UK



General Organising Committee



Bernhard Kettemann   -    Graz, AU

Lou Burnard       -    Oxford University, UK

Tim Johns        -    Birmingham University, UK



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 16 May 1996 01:23:28 -0700

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: biff



I've never heard biff before. And my two cents goes to Mondegreen - I

like it much better.



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 16 May 1996 14:28:16 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Streaking--1960s



   A UPI story which appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle, 8 April

   1965, page 8, reads: ÍBoulder, Coloradoß This spring's fad on the

   University of Colorado campus is called 'streaking.' It means running

   naked through a public gathering." The rest of this story relates

   that UC students who streaked in Mazatlan, Mexico, in March, were

   chased by police and shot at. Five students were arrested and spent

   two days in jail without clothes.



   Herb Caen's column which appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle of 18

   September 1967, page 27, reads: "If you're in Sausalito one of these

   nights, and some guy with no clothes on runs past, fast as hell,

   your're seeing a 'streaker.' It's a contest, called 'Streaking,' that

   started a few years ago on the campuses, and seems to be reviving.

   The idea is to be seen naked by as many people as possible without

   getting caught; . . ."



   Hope this helps.



   Randy Roberts

   University of Missouri-Columbia

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 16 May 1996 22:31:56 -0400

From:  Al Futrell  awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HOMER.LOUISVILLE.EDU 

Subject: Re: biff



Of course, "biff" is also a computer term. In the UNIX world "biff" is a

command that tells the system whether a user wants to be notified when

mail arrives. By extension, you can "biff" someone, which basically means

'interrupt' someone by sending him/her mail in the middle of a session.

You can either "biff y" or "biff n" depending on whether you want to be

notified. Now, why is it "biff?" Net folklore has it that the guy who

wrote the function named it after his dog. Who knows?





Al Futrell

-- awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]homer.louisville.edu

-- http://www.louisville.edu/~awfutr01

Dept of Communication -- University of Louisville



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 15 May 1996 to 16 May 1996

************************************************





There are 10 messages totalling 221 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. singular "we" (2)

 2. interfacial engineering

 3. biff

 4. Yuz (3)

 5. RE  Yuz

 6. help subscribing to HEL-L (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 16 May 1996 23:36:07 -0500

From:  Dan Goodman  goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREENET.MSP.MN.US 

Subject: singular "we"



Wed, 8 May 1996 05:31:17 -0500

Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Re: singular "we"



   I wonder if this is found elsewhere in the Upper Midwest?

 

 I thought singular "we" as in "we'll see you" was pretty common

 throughout the U.S. I've heard it compared with the use of "y'all"

 in set expressions like "y'all come back" when said to just one

 person. I think maybe Michael Montgomery has made such a comparison

 in one of his articles on "y'all."

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

I don't remember encountering it in other places I've lived: Ulster

County NY, New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Did I miss it,

or have I managed (till moving to MPLS) to live in the only parts of

the US where this isn't common?



Meanwhile, elsewhere, a former and a current resident of Brooklyn are

discussing whether Brooklynites use "youse" as a singular.



Dan Goodman



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 07:16:17 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: interfacial engineering



i'd say this is a word of the year candidate, if only i knew what

it meant. this is the aboutt-the-author blurb at the end of an

editorial re-posted to the humanist list about a controversy at the

u of minnesota:



Fennell Evans is director of the University of Minnesota's Center for

Interfacial Engineering.



the only thing i can think that interfacial engineering might be is

the technology of mashing.



does anyone know?



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 08:21:47 -0500

From:  Ron Rabin  RABINRL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SNYBUFAA.CS.SNYBUF.EDU 

Subject: Re: singular "we"



1) we as singular: I heard it growing up in Los Angeles in the 50s, at

  school at Berkeley in the 60s.

2) youse as singular: in Buffalo, NY, I have only heard youse as a plural

  form of you. I was told/read (reference long lost) that youse comes

  from a 2nd person plural in Irish Gaelic that found its way into English

  (in Ireland? in the US?) of the Irish (some identifiable subset?) and was

  adopted by other groups living/working with them as the others learned

  English in the US. In the greater Buffalo area, it's found geographically

  rather than ethnically, giving the borrowing theory some vague support.



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 08:31:28 EDT

From:  Arnold Zwicky  zwicky[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LING.OHIO-STATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: biff



 Net folklore has it that the guy who wrote the function named

 it after his dog.



the story of biff is told, i believe, in The Hacker's Dictionary

(my copy of which is in my california house, alas, but it's

available several places on the net).



biff, the dog, barked whenever the mail carrier came.



and the guy who wrote the function was a woman. a specific

known woman; my daughter, who is a large-scale unix

systems administrator, knows her, but i, being a linguist

who knows infinitestimal amounts about unix, have forgotten

her name.



arnold (zwicky[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ling.ohio-state.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 08:54:41 +0000

From:  Grant Barrett  gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM 

Subject: Yuz



My aunt who has lived in Southeast Missouri her entire life says "yuz" as=

 in, "Yuz want to come back to the house for some cake?" The pronunciatio=

n is between schwa and a "oo" in "foot". She uses it for singular and plu=

ral.



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 10:29:05 -0500

From:  Ron Rabin  RABINRL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SNYBUFAA.CS.SNYBUF.EDU 

Subject: Re: Yuz



Is it possible there are two "youse" that are distributed differently

by ethnicity, geography and history?

In Buffalo, NY, youse has the clear oo of hoot.

In Southern California I've also heard yiz with the i of hit from those

from the Midwest.



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 10:39:09 EDT

From:  "Steven K. Brehe"  SBREHE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NUGGET.NGC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: Yuz



  aunt who has lived in Southeast Missouri her entire life says

 "yuz" as=

  in, "Yuz want to come back to the house for some cake?" The pronunciatio=

  n is between schwa and a "oo" in "foot". She uses it for singular and plu=

  ral.



I grew up in rural east central Missouri, west of St. Louis,

and never, ever heard "Yuz" from native Missourians, although

I certainly heard "youse" in Illinois, esp. in the Chicago

area. (I must confess I don't know SE MO very well.)

Is it possible your aunt in eastern MO picked up this usage

from friends in western IL?







Steven Brehe

sbrehe[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nugget.ngc.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 11:05:24 +0000

From:  Grant Barrett  gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM 

Subject: RE  Yuz



Missouri is in many ways a divided state. East Central Missouri (maybe Me=

xico, Kingdom City, Troy, Union, Hermann, Washington, possibly Rolla) is =

dialectically different than Southeast Missouri (Doniphan, Popular Bluff,=

 Greenville, Piedmont, Silva, Lutesville, the Bootheel etc.). Even the Li=

ttle Dixie speech of Mexico and other parts of Audrain county is differen=

t than the Ozark/Arkansas drawl of Southeast Missouri.=20



My aunt (my father's sister) travels to St. Louis once or twice a year an=

d to the best of my knowledge does not know anyone in Illinois except her=

 brother, my uncle. We are talking about a woman that did not get indoor =

plumbing until the mid-eighties. She works in a pool hall, managing the f=

lea market. Her husband is a big rig driver and runs a saw mill.



My father, who is from Southeast Missouri, and my mother, from St. Louis,=

 have different modes of speech but grew up only 150 miles apart.=20



--------------------------------------

Date: 5/17/96 10:43 AM

From: Steven K. Brehe

  aunt who has lived in Southeast Missouri her entire life says

 "yuz" as=3D

  in, "Yuz want to come back to the house for some cake?" The pronunciat=

io=3D

  n is between schwa and a "oo" in "foot". She uses it for singular and p=

lu=3D

  ral.



I grew up in rural east central Missouri, west of St. Louis,

and never, ever heard "Yuz" from native Missourians, although

I certainly heard "youse" in Illinois, esp. in the Chicago

area. (I must confess I don't know SE MO very well.)

Is it possible your aunt in eastern MO picked up this usage

from friends in western IL?







Steven Brehe

sbrehe[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nugget.ngc.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 16:27:33 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: help subscribing to HEL-L



I've been trying to get the right address to subscribe to the History of the

English Language List for weeks. Does anyone know how?



Dale Coye

Princeton, NJ



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 16:33:32 -0400

From:  Robert Swets  bobbo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BCFREENET.SEFLIN.LIB.FL.US 

Subject: Re: help subscribing to HEL-L



I'd like to know, too.



*******************************************************************************

                 __ __

COLOR ME ORANGE         | | | | Voice: 954-782-4582; Fax: 954-782-4535

R. D. Swets (Archbishop Bob)   | | | | Zion Lutheran School:  954-421-3146,

170 N.E. 18th Street    ______| | | |______  Ext. 135;  Fax: 954-421-4250

Pompano Beach, FL 33060 (________) (________) Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel:

bobbo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us        954-356-4635; Fax: 954-356-4676

*******************************************************************************



On Fri, 17 May 1996, Dale F.Coye wrote:



  I've been trying to get the right address to subscribe to the History of the

  English Language List for weeks. Does anyone know how?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 16 May 1996 to 17 May 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 50 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. interfacial engineering

 2. help subscribing to HEL-L

 3. help subscribing to hel-l



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 18 May 1996 01:01:46 -0700

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: interfacial engineering



Interfacial engineering - ya sure it's not related to cosmetic surgery? :-)



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 18 May 1996 08:56:05 EDT

From:  Sonja Lanehart  LANEHART[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: help subscribing to HEL-L



I believe the address for the HEL list is:

  Hel-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ebbs.english.vt.edu



***********************************************************************

Sonja L. Lanehart

Dept. of English (300 Park Hall)   Phone:  (706) 542-2260

University of Georgia        Fax:   (706) 542-2181

Athens, GA 30602-6205        E-mail: Lanehart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

***********************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 18 May 1996 11:40:26 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: Re: help subscribing to hel-l



To subscribe to the hel-l, try this:



    listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ebbs.english.vt.edu



LEAVE THE SUBJECT LINE BLANK



In the body of the text, write

    subscribe hel-l YOUR FIRST NAME YOUR LAST NAME

and send it.



You should get a confirmation.



Then the address for contributing to the list is

    hel-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ebbs.english.vt.edu



best,

beth



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 17 May 1996 to 18 May 1996

************************************************





There is one message totalling 56 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. English only



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 18 May 1996 13:31:30 +0000

From:  "Albert E. Krahn"  akrahn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IBM.NET 

Subject: English only



Dennis Baron wrote:



Date:  Tue, 14 May 1996 21:32:34 -0500

From:  Dennis Baron  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU 

Subject: Re: English Only Amendment



Illinois has had an official language since 1923, when American was

declared the language of the state. This law was put through by an

anti-British coalition of Irish and Jewish Chicago pols, who wanted to

express their displeasure at the treatment by the mother country of Ireland

and Palestine.

In 1969 the law was quietly amended to make _English_ the official

language. But it has had no practical effect. It is laws like that of

Arizona, which the US Supreme Court has recently agreed to review, that can

actually be punitive. The AZ law forbids government employees from using

any language other than English in the course of their jobs. It was

declared unconstitutional on 1st amendment grounds by the US Circuit Court.

The Supreme Court will also rule on the broader issue of whether states

can make laws establishing an official language.



Copies of federal legislation currently being considered (the Language of

Government Act and constitutional amendments, together with comments by

supporters and opponents which appear in the Congressional Record, are

available on Thomas, the Library of Congress Web Site. I have just received

a transcript of the hearings held last October on language legislation.



Dennis

--



Dennis Baron                    debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Department of English           office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois              fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright Street             home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, IL 61801



----------



Wisconsin is working on one of these stupid laws, too.



Do you think we could sue the Attorney General if the law passes and get him

to change his name to General Attorney -- and alter all the records from the

past hundred years to read in proper English word order? Perhaps we could

drag the Surgeon General into court, too, especially whenever he talks in

Latin and Greek words instead of translating aureomycin into golden fungus.

Or maybe the judges could be fined if they uttered such things as habeas

corpus. I wonder what the ACLU would think about it. After all, what's sauce

for the goose . . . .



AKRA



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 18 May 1996 to 19 May 1996

************************************************





There are 2 messages totalling 43 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. interfacial engineering (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 17 May 1996 09:19:58 EDT

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: interfacial engineering



I've never seen "interfacial engineering" before, but at a wild

guess it's a derived adjective from "interface," which might have

to do with computers ("human interface" in the sense of how the

person uses the computer, what the computer looks like, that sort

of thing). But I'm only guessing--maybe a query to whoever posted

that editorial to the humanist list would be more fruitful.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 20 May 1996 14:29:25 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: interfacial engineering



Oh! And here I thought "human interface" was what happened when a

two-faced person talked to himself!



Peter



On Fri, 17 May 1996, Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer wrote:



  I've never seen "interfacial engineering" before, but at a wild

  guess it's a derived adjective from "interface," which might have

  to do with computers ("human interface" in the sense of how the

  person uses the computer, what the computer looks like, that sort

  of thing). But I'm only guessing--maybe a query to whoever posted

  that editorial to the humanist list would be more fruitful.

 

  Vicki Rosenzweig

  vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

  New York, NY

 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 19 May 1996 to 20 May 1996

************************************************





There are 2 messages totalling 84 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. linguistic data consortium

 2. NEW WEB SITE!! AMAZING $$$ OPPORTUNITY!



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 21 May 1996 06:12:29 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: linguistic data consortium



perhaps this will be of interest to some. from the humanist list:





------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

        Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 10, No. 35.

  Center for Electronic Texts in the Humanities (Princeton/Rutgers)

    Information at http://www.princeton.edu/~mccarty/humanist/



---------------------

    Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:24:24 -0400

    From: LDC Office  ldc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unagi.cis.upenn.edu 







        Announcing a NEW RELEASE from the

          LINGUISTIC DATA CONSORTIUM



           Radio Broadcast News

      Continuous Speech Recognition Corpus (Hub-4)



This set of CD-ROMs contains all of the speech data provided to sites

participating in the DARPA CSR November 1995 Hub-4 (Radio) Broadcast

News tests. The data consists of digitized waveforms of MarketPlace

(tm) business news radio shows provided by KUSC through an agreement

with the Linguistic Data Consortium, and detailed transcriptions of

those broadcasts. The software NIST used to process and score the

output of the test systems is also included.



The data is organized as follows:



CD26-1: Training Data-Ten complete half-hour broadcasts with

minimally-verified transcripts. The transcripts are time aligned with

the waveforms at the story-boundary level.



CD26-2: Development-Test Data-Six complete half-hour broadcasts with

verified transcripts. The transcripts are time aligned with the

waveforms at the story-and turn-boundary level. Index files have been

included which specify how the data may be partitioned into 2 test

sets.



CD26-6 Evaluation-Test Data-Five complete half-hour broadcasts with

verified/adjudicated transcripts. The transcripts are time aligned

with the waveforms at the story-, turn-, and music-boundary level. An

index file has been included which specifies how the data was

partitioned into the test set used in the CSR 1995 Hub-4 tests.



Institutions that have membership in the LDC during the 1996

Membership Year will be able to receive a copy of the Radio Broadcast

News at no additional charge, in the same manner as all other text and

speech corpora published by the LDC.



Nonmembers can receive a copy of this corpus for research purposes

only for a fee of $2500. If you would like to order a copy of this

corpus, please email your request to ldc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unagi.cis.upenn.edu. If you

need additional information before placing your order, or would like

to inquire about membership in the LDC, please send email or call

(215) 898-0464.



Further information about the LDC and its available corpora can be

accessed on the Linguistic Data Consortium WWW Home Page at URL

http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~ldc. Information is also available via ftp

at ftp.cis.upenn.edu under pub/ldc; for ftp access, please use

"anonymous" as your login name, and give your email address when asked

for password.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 21 May 1996 21:19:50 -0400

From:  Ryan DeLuca  MHunter33[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: NEW WEB SITE!! AMAZING $$$ OPPORTUNITY!



You won't believe how EASY it is! Learn these AMAZING new secrets to making

a lot of money online now by going to:



http://members.aol.com/deluca22/money.htm



P.S. This is NOT MY SITE!! I just wanted to help other AOL members!! :)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 20 May 1996 to 21 May 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 59 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. interfacial engineering

 2. "straight drive" (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 22 May 1996 17:49:37 -0400

From:  Margaret Ronkin  ronkinm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUSUN.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: interfacial engineering



    A scientist-friend informs me that, depending on context,

interfacial engineering can refer to:



(1) A part of chemical engineering concerned with the management of

molecular events at the surfaces of solids, liquids, or gases.



(2) A part of computer programming concerned with using software to

manage the interaction of computers with their human users.



(3) A part of industrial engineering concerned with understanding

and using huuman interactions in the workplace to increase productivity,

safety, etc.



    My consultant suggested doing a Web search for "interfacial

engineering" using a broad-based search engine like Alta Vista to find

titles/references that define the term.



Maggie Ronkin

International Language Programs

and Research

Georgetown University



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 22 May 1996 18:20:04 -0400

From:  Kathy Burns  burns[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CYC.COM 

Subject: "straight drive"



Dear ADS-listers,



My brother and his girlfriend were visiting this weekend, and she told

me that she was sick of "straight drive" and wanted her next car to be

an automatic. I have never heard this term used to mean standard or

manual transmission. Are any of you familiar with this usage? My

brother's girlfriend is in her 20's and grew up in NW South Carolina

(the Uplands or Upcountry or whatever it's called).



Thanks,

Kathy Burns



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 22 May 1996 15:36:24 PDT

From:  Joseph Jones  jjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNIXG.UBC.CA 

Subject: Re: "straight drive"



In Piedmont North Carolina in the 1950's and 1960's the opposite of

automatic (automobile transmission) was straight drive.





Joseph Jones    jjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unixg.ubc.ca

University of British Columbia Library



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 21 May 1996 to 22 May 1996

************************************************





There are 7 messages totalling 191 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. newspaper lingo

 2. "straight drive" (3)

 3. Honors thesis on regional dialect perception

 4. Job Ad

 5. To ADS Members--New Library of Congress Regulations



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 23 May 1996 04:23:17 -0700

From:  Crissie Trigger  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: newspaper lingo



from crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ix.netcom.com (SETH SKLAREY)





Some interesting stuff from the BONG Bulletin

 Copyright (c) 1996 by BONG. All rights reserved.



To subscribe: E-mail to listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]netcom.com. In text say

subscribe bong-l.







NEWSPAPER LINGO



Stephen G. Bloom, ex of Los Angeles Times and

Dallas Morning News now professing journalism at the University of

Iowa, did a dandy piece for The American Editor on newsroom

jargon. Yes, "30" translates from telegraphic code XXX, meaning

the end. Stringers were paid by story length, measured by a

string at the editor's desk.

   PI (pronounced pee eye), lede, hed, graf, folo and TK are

deliberate misspellings so they won't get into print. Lede is

copy, lead is metal. Bloom didn't mention it, but even now old-

timers are edgy about using "lead" unless it's a story about

leading a band or a drill team. Wood is the big headline, often so

big that wooden type was used.

   Cereal spitter was a gory photo, especially for ayem papers'

breakfast readers. Bloom suggests that some editors now use what

they call the "Wheaties test," not to cull boring shots but to

encourage something called good taste. It's the clearest proof

that times have changed.

   Spike was the nail where bad stories went. Slug is a story's

name, originally cast in a line of Linotype metal. Lobster shift,

describing the overnighters, has a varied etymology. Bloom says

morning is lobster-catching time, bad lighting makes for red eyes.

The tale of Hearst's New York World being near the lobster boat

piers and both kinds of crews going to work simultaneously isn't

mentioned. Lob shift is a term virtually unknown outside

newspapering. Lobstermen don't even use it. Maybe they say

Grumpy printers with red noses from drinking on their way to work

shift.

============

The world's foremost expert in newsroom atmosphere, BONG Chief

Copyboy Charley Stough, Dayton Daily News, 45 S. Ludlow St.,

Dayton, Ohio 45401 tosses a rose to NYTNS bloodhounds worldwide.

E-mail copyboy[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dma.org. Phone (513) 225-2445 after 3 p.m.

eastern. Fax 225-2489.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 23 May 1996 08:53:43 -0400

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: "straight drive"



In the mid and late 1950's in the Louisville (KY) area, a manual

transmission was a



'stick'



'stick shift'



or



'straight stick'



I never heard the 'full' form 'straight stick shift.'



Automatic transmissions were 'automatic,' never 'automatic shift' (or

'stick'). Therefore, for example, sentences like 'Is it a stick or an

automatic?' were OK, while 'Is it a stick or automatic shift?' sound funny

to me.



Glad to hear that some younguns still use the terminology, but sorry to

hear they don't like the transmission.



Dennis (still a straight stick user) Preston







 Dear ADS-listers,

 

 My brother and his girlfriend were visiting this weekend, and she told

 me that she was sick of "straight drive" and wanted her next car to be

 an automatic. I have never heard this term used to mean standard or

 manual transmission. Are any of you familiar with this usage? My

 brother's girlfriend is in her 20's and grew up in NW South Carolina

 (the Uplands or Upcountry or whatever it's called).

 

 Thanks,

 Kathy Burns



Dennis R. Preston

Department of Linguistics and Languages

Michigan State University

East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA

preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu

Office: (517)432-1235

Fax: (517)432-2736



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 23 May 1996 12:39:32 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: "straight drive"



The first term I ever knew for a manual transmission, long before I had

ever heard "manual transmission," was "straight shift." I don't think I

ever heard "straight drive," however. The normal term in Mississippi in

the '50s was "straight shift."

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 23 May 1996 13:47:52 -0400

From:  "MICHELLE M. MILES"  104612.1550[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

Subject: Honors thesis on regional dialect perception



I am an undergraduate student in communication sciences and disorders at

James Madison University. I am currently working on an honors thesis

pertaining to regional dialect perception as well as people's perceptions

of their own dialect. I am now in the beginning stages of my literature

review. I would really appreciate any current research references or

information that any of you would have relating to my topic. Thank you.

    Michelle Miles



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 23 May 1996 13:41:37 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Job Ad



  Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:35:34 -0700

  From: Kim Chief Elk  chiefelk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cedar.fhda.edu 

  To: maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu

  Subject: Dean, Language Arts

 

  Could this announcement be posted to ADS-L

 

  thanks much.

 

   Foothill Community College

  12345 El Monte Road

  Los Altos Hills, CA 94002

   Student population approx. 13,000

   

   Located in the San Francisco Bay Area, is searching for a Dean, Language

   Arts.

   

   The Division includes English, English as a Second Language, Foreign

   Languages.

   

   If interested, please send e-mail request with postal address to

   cms6438[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mercury.fhda.edu

   

   Thanks

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 23 May 1996 13:50:23 -0500

From:  Tom Beckner  TMBECKNER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TAYLORU.EDU 

Subject: Re: "straight drive"



Growing up in southern Ohio during the 1950's, an area influenced by

Appalachain transplants, I did hear "straight drive" occasionally in the

context of "manual transmission."



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 23 May 1996 15:37:29 -0500

From:  LAWRENCE DAVIS  DAVIS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU 

Subject: To ADS Members--New Library of Congress Regulations



Steven J. Herman, Chief of the Collections Management Division of the Library

of Congress sent me a letter informing me that, beginning May 28, every user

of the Library of Congress reading rooms will be required to have a Reader

Registration Card, available at the Reader Registration Station in Room G22 of

the Thomas Jefferson Bldg. on Monday, Wed., and Thurs. from 8:30 am to 9:00 pm

and on Tues., Fri., and Sat. from 8:30 am to 4:30 pm. Mr. Herman assures us

that the process will take about 10 minutes only and will be instituted for

both enhancing the security of the collections and also making the system

easier to use. You will need photo identification.



Your loving president,

Larry Davis



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 22 May 1996 to 23 May 1996

************************************************





There are 8 messages totalling 215 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. "straight drive"

 2. inservice v.t. (4)

 3. "I was about to say" (3)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 03:27:47 -0400

From:  Bob Haas  rahaas[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: "straight drive"



Kathy,



I grew up in the Blue Ridge Mountains of NC, and have always heard a

manual transmission referred to as a "straight transmission," or

oftentimes simply "a straight," e.g., "What kinda transmission you got in

that car?" "A straight." "Straight drive" works just as well.



Bob Haas

UNCG Department of English

rahaas[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 08:38:35 EDT

From:  Orin Hargraves  100422.2566[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

Subject: inservice v.t.



Below, a quote from a recent e-mail message I received:



  I was so excited to receive your message!!! This will be great fun now

  that we have e-mail in our school. We're getting inserviced next Wed. on

  using it, but I have addresses and am having fun trying all this on

  my own. I'm still fairly new at learning about the big picture of e-mail

  and internet...



The writer is a K-12 teacher in the upper Midwest.



Is this use of "inservice" teacher jargon? Has anyone else heard or seen it? Any

info appreciated.





With best wishes,



Orin Hargraves



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 12:03:19 -0400

From:  Suzanne Cadwell  scadwell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EMAIL.UNC.EDU 

Subject: "I was about to say"



Hello, folks!

I'm a doctoral student in Rhetoric & Composition at UNC-CH, a student of

Connie Eble's, and a year-long lurker on this list. Just within the past

year, I've noticed myself and a handful of others (including Prof. Eble!)

using "I was about to say" as a discourse marker or comment clause in

conversation.



My working hypothesis, if one can even term it that, is that it is a

gesture of either:



1) informing the conversation partner that you had had the same thought

they have just expressed



2) a general statement of sympathy with the sentiments the conversation

partner had just expressed



I've only "caught" one man using the clause, who insisted that he uses it

only as an affectation.



Is this a recent phenomenon or am I just suddenly aware of it?



Thanks!



Suzanne Cadwell



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 12:47:24 -0400

From:  TERRY IRONS  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: "I was about to say"



On Fri, 24 May 1996, Suzanne Cadwell wrote:



  using "I was about to say" as a discourse marker or comment clause in

  conversation.

 

  My working hypothesis, if one can even term it that, is that it is a

  gesture of either:

 

  1) informing the conversation partner that you had had the same thought

  they have just expressed

 

  2) a general statement of sympathy with the sentiments the conversation

  partner had just expressed

 

  I've only "caught" one man using the clause, who insisted that he uses it

  only as an affectation.

 

  Is this a recent phenomenon or am I just suddenly aware of it?

 



I haven't really paid much attention to this phrase, but it does work as

a clear discourse marker of some kind. But my sense is that works in a

manner somewhat different than your hypothesis, although there could be

two or more forms here.



My sense is that the phrase, "I was about to say" functions as a means of

claiming the floor or a turn, after an interruption. In this context

though, I hear it more as, "As I was about to say..." It all depends on

what comes in the "..." Sometimes we hear "the same thing" which points

to the collaborative/sympathy function. But we also here "before you

interrupted."



Terry Irons



(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 14:38:58 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: inservice v.t.



Before I got into the education racket (ten years ago) I had never heard

inservice in any form. The noun, as in "We're conducting an inservice on

whole language teaching," (meaning what used to be called a teachers'

workshop) has been around at least that long. I wonder how many people

outside of education know about it?

 I've never heard this use as a verb, but am not surprised.



Dale Coye

The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching

Princeton, NJ



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 12:00:48 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: inservice v.t.



This is common in Arizona as a noun, K-12 education. Additionally,

an inservice is usually a district affair and involves pay.

Bill King

SLAT program

University of Arizona



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 16:56:08 -0500

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: "I was about to say"



Suzanne spake thusly:

 My working hypothesis, if one can even term it that, is that it is a

 gesture of either:

 

 1) informing the conversation partner that you had had the same thought

 they have just expressed

 

 2) a general statement of sympathy with the sentiments the conversation

 partner had just expressed



Actually, I (and many others I've heard)

have at least one more use for it.



Speaker A makes a statement which is either

intentionally or unintentionally misleading,

then clarifies intended meaning.



Speaker B responds with a hearty,

"I was about to say...!"



For example:



A: I'm spending the weekend at the beach.



B: You are? (Thinking it's a little cold

yet in Chicago for the beach.)



A: Yes. In Cozumel. (wry grin)



B: OH! I was about to say...!



Never mind that it's not a likely scenario.

I'm allowed to dream if I want to. ;)



And have a great Memorial Day weekend, all!



=^]



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 312.996.8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX    ;

;URL: http://www2.uic.edu/depts/langlab/          ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 24 May 1996 18:58:22 CDT

From:  Marla Broom  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU 

Subject: Re: inservice v.t.



I've never heard 'inserviced' as a verb but this is teacher jargon meaning

workshops done for teachers. In my district in Arkansas, teachers are required

to have 30 hours of 'inservice' credit per year to keep certificates active.

Sounds as if someone is coming to the school to give teachers instruction

in the use of their new e-mail set up.

Marla Broom



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 23 May 1996 to 24 May 1996

************************************************





There are 12 messages totalling 288 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. I was about to say

 2. "took a shine to" (6)

 3. inservice v.t. (2)

 4. "I was about to say"

 5. "took a shine to" [To take a shine to . . .]

 6. (in)service, v.t.



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 08:19:42 EDT

From:  Orin Hargraves  100422.2566[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

Subject: Re: I was about to say



My experience is that the far more common form of this in conversation is "I was

gonna say". Some speakers overuse it to the point that it is more a filler than

a marker, but I think it has all the uses that Suzanne and Kathleen pointed out.

With reference to Kathleen's interpretation specifically, viz., that it is used

to clarify a misleading statement: overusers of the phrase are often those who

are unable to let ANY statement go unchallenged, or in other words, those who

must add their two cents to every thought expressed!



Orin Hargraves



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 10:08:20 -0500

From:  Alicia Spiegel  aspiegel[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SIU.EDU 

Subject: "took a shine to"



Dear ADS:

  While listening to an 'infomercial' on the television regarding an

exercise machine for older persons, I heard an elderly gentleman say that

he "took a shine to exercising". I've only heard this once before in my

life. Any idea how this came about, and what it really means?

 Thanks.

  Alicia Spiegel (aspiegel[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]siu.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 11:18:56 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: inservice v.t.



  This is common in Arizona as a noun, K-12 education. Additionally,

  an inservice is usually a district affair and involves pay.

  Bill King

  SLAT program

  University of Arizona



i'm surprised no one else has heard this in higher education as well.

at umass/amherst i was inserviced (i don't remember if it was used as

a verb there) as a resident assistant and the title "inservice

training" appears in my teaching portfolio. (i think we used it at

illinois too, but it might just be that i used it, having picked it

up at umass.)



i'd suspect that some other service professions might have it, but

don't know. has anyone asked a nurse?



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 11:22:26 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: "I was about to say"



like terry irons, my initial reaction to "(as) i was about to say..."

is that it's sort of a reprimand for an interruption.



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 10:24:33 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: "took a shine to"



  he "took a shine to exercising". I've only heard this once before in my

  life. Any idea how this came about, and what it really means?



I don't know where it came from, but I've heard it all my life as an

expression meaning to like something immediately.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 10:40:43 -0500

From:  Gerald Walton  vcgw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU 

Subject: Re: "took a shine to"



At 10:24 AM 5/25/96 -0500, you wrote:



 I don't know where it came from, but I've heard it all my life as an

 expression meaning to like something immediately.



Same here, from same general section of the country. GWW



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 15:26:00 -0400

From:  "David A. Johns"  djohns[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AFN.ORG 

Subject: Re: "took a shine to"



At 10:24 AM 5/25/96 -0500, you wrote:

   he "took a shine to exercising". I've only heard this once before in my

   life. Any idea how this came about, and what it really means?

 

 I don't know where it came from, but I've heard it all my life as an

 expression meaning to like something immediately.

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

 



I've heard it all my life, and I grew up in New England. But it doesn't

sound quite right applied to an activity; I think I would use it only of

people. I also seem to have a sense that the "shine" was unexpected, as in

an adult taking a shine to an unruly child.



David Johns

Waycross College

Waycross, GA



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 18:49:53 -0600

From:  Samuel Jones  smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: "took a shine to" [To take a shine to . . .]



Having lived in both Oklahoma & Texas for extended periods of time, I

can tell you that "to take a shine to" is an expression I have heard

used there all the years I was located in that part of the US, particularly

among ranchers, cattlemen, farmers, and country folk. "At the pie supper,

Harry took quite a shine to the new schoolmarm, and kinda cozied up to

her!" "When Mary Beth heard the new banker was single, she took quite a

shine to

him!"



 At 10:24 AM 5/25/96 -0500, you wrote:

    he "took a shine to exercising". I've only heard this once before in my

    life. Any idea how this came about, and what it really means?

  

  I don't know where it came from, but I've heard it all my life as an

  expression meaning to like something immediately.

    --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

  

 

 I've heard it all my life, and I grew up in New England. But it doesn't

 sound quite right applied to an activity; I think I would use it only of

 people. I also seem to have a sense that the "shine" was unexpected, as in

 an adult taking a shine to an unruly child.

 

 David Johns

 Waycross College

 Waycross, GA



____________________________________________________________________________

DR. SAMUEL M. JONES          INTERNET: smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu

Prof. of Music & Latin American Studies TELNET: samjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu

5434 Humanities Building          FAX: 608 + 262-8876 (UW)

455 North Park Street

__________________________________________

University of Wisconsin-Madison TELEPHONES: 608 + 263-1900 (UW-Lv. message)

Madison, WI 53706-1483          * 608 + 263-1924 * (UW-Office -

                        * VOICE MAIL--Lv message)



____________________________________________________________________________

"Pen-y-Bryn"          TELEPHONES: 608 + 233-2150 (Home)

122 Shepard Terrace             608 + 233-4748 (Home)

Madison, WI 53705-3614

____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 20:56:00 -0400

From:  Beverly Flanigan  FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: (in)service, v.t.



  "Inservice" as a noun has been around quite a while, I believe.

  However, I heard a variant of the verb form just the other day and now,

  serendipitously, have a chance to sound off about it. A K-12 teacher

  called about getting ESL validation in our summer program and talked,

  with naive approval, of how she incorporates kids of limited English

  proficiency into her special ed. classes. When I protested that

  special ed. is not the place for LEP kids, she shifted gears and agreed

  with me but then added that she often feels these children aren't

  "serviced" adequately. Having grown up on a farm in Minnesota, I know

  another meaning for "serviced." Talk about adding insult to injury.

  Educationese is full of such depersonalizing jargon, as is

  Speech/Hearing Clinic talk, where even schoolchildren are "clients."

                    Beverly Flanigan

                    Ohio University



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 22:13:12 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: "took a shine to"



On Sat, 25 May 1996, Alicia Spiegel wrote:



   While listening to an 'infomercial' on the television regarding an

  exercise machine for older persons, I heard an elderly gentleman say that

  he "took a shine to exercising". I've only heard this once before in my

  life. Any idea how this came about, and what it really means?



I don't recall hearing the phrase "took a shine to exercising," but I

have heard "took a shine to" all my life. I don't know its origin and

don't have time to do any research right now. It means,"found myself

simpatico with."



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 22:48:26 -0400

From:  Johnnie Renick  tenderrite[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]USA.PIPELINE.COM 

Subject: Re: inservice v.t.



On May 24, 1996 08:38:35, 'Orin Hargraves  100422.2566[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM '

wrote:





 Return-Path:  owner-ads-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

 Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by usa.pipeline.com

 (8.6.9/SMI-5.3-PIPELINE-pop-local)

     id IAA28703; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:43:24 -0400

 Message-Id:  199605241243.IAA28703[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]usa.pipeline.com 

 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3)

 with BSMTP id 3746; Fri, 24 May 96 08:41:44 EDT

 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU



 (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4064; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:41:43 -0400

 Date:     Fri, 24 May 1996 08:38:35 EDT

 Reply-To: American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

 Sender: American Dialect Society

 From: Orin Hargraves  100422.2566[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

 Subject:   inservice v.t.

 To: Multiple recipients of list ADS-L  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

 

 Below, a quote from a recent e-mail message I received:

 

   I was so excited to receive your message!!! This will be great fun now

   that we have e-mail in our school. We're getting inserviced next Wed. on



   using it, but I have addresses and am having fun trying all this on

   my own. I'm still fairly new at learning about the big picture of e-mail



   and internet...

 

 The writer is a K-12 teacher in the upper Midwest.

 

 Is this use of "inservice" teacher jargon? Has anyone else heard or seen

it?

 Any

 info appreciated.

 

 

 With best wishes,

 

 Orin Hargraves

--

Yes I am a teacher and the term is used to tell about the workshops we

have to attend during the school year. Teachers all over the country are

reguired to have a certain number of inservice hours.





Johnnie Renick



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 25 May 1996 23:02:24 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: "took a shine to"



I doubt it's regional. I think it's standard colloquial American English

(what else could explain the fact that both we northeasterners and you deep

southerners are on the same intimate terms with shine-taking?), and Webster's

3rd has under SHINE (n.), sense 5: 'a sudden fancy, liking', with the

citation "If she takes a shine to you she'll treat you all right". The OED

lists is as 'U.S.', glossing it as 'to take a fancy for' (yup, 'for'--

a shine 2 = a fancy 4), with the first citation from 1848 sounding somewhat

dialectal to be sure: "My gracious! It's a scorpion thet's took a shine to

play with't". The second citation, from 1908, strikes one as more standard:

[from W. Churchill] "He took a shine to you that night you saw him'"

(And then of course there's the unrequited shine, whence the shiner.)

                Larry



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 24 May 1996 to 25 May 1996

************************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 97 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Words that end in GRY (2)

 2. Foul Play at ea.oac.uci.edu

 3. ea.oac.uci.edu

 4. LJP [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] http://ljp.la.utk.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 26 May 1996 14:04:50 -0400

From:  Heilan Yvette Grimes  HEP2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Words that end in GRY



 In the past few weeks I've seen this unanswered puzzler pop up in three

 different circles. So excuse me while I introduce it to this circle which

 might be able to answer it.

 

 The English language has (at least) three words that end in GRY. "Angry"

and

 "hungry" are two of them. What is the third, which purportedly is an

everyday

 word?

 

 -- Jim



The third word I was always taught was pugry. Also, gry is a word and ends in

gry.



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 26 May 1996 11:39:41 -0700

From:  Binaifer Irani  bina[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EA.OAC.UCI.EDU 

Subject: Re: Words that end in GRY



I don't know how I became subscribed to this listserv. If anyone can

tell me how to become unsubscribed I would appreciate it.

Thanks.



p.s my address is bina[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uci.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 26 May 1996 13:57:57 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Foul Play at ea.oac.uci.edu



  I don't know how I became subscribed to this listserv. If anyone can

  tell me how to become unsubscribed I would appreciate it.

  Thanks.



Last night *67* people on your system all subscribed to ADS-L -- all

with Smith at the ends of their names. I sent e-mail to postmaster[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]

ea.oac.uci.edu asking what was going on but haven't heard anything

yet from him/her.



To unsubscribe, send this command to listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu:

unsub ADS-L



On second thought, now that your posting has confirmed my suspicions

that sixty-seven Smiths at ea.oac.uci.edu didn't all decide at once

to subscribe to ADS-L, maybe I'll remove them all -- but it will take

a while for me to enter all those addresses.



(It occurred to me that maybe a teacher named Smith had a class

subscribe and used Smith at the end of each userid for some reason.

That struck me as pretty far-fetched, though.)

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 26 May 1996 14:08:52 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: ea.oac.uci.edu



It just occurred to me that I don't have any way of knowing whether

we had any subscribers at ea.oac.uci.edu before last night. If

anybody with that address is a legitimate subscriber, please resub.

I'm about to delete everybody with that address.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 26 May 1996 16:28:38 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: LJP [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] http://ljp.la.utk.edu



I am writing to comment on the delay in the current (double) issue of

Language in the Judicial Process. Just as we were about to go online, the

University of Tennessee laid off with no warning 50+ employees of the UT

computing center, including David Hale, the Technical Editor of LJP. I

don't yet know whether he will be able to keep an internet account.

Further, consulting assistance is now available only at $50 per hour.



I may have to learn enough HTML to get this issue out. I'll keep you posted.

(Suggestions welcome.)



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | Editor, Language in the Judicial Process

                     http://ljp.la.utk.edu 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 25 May 1996 to 26 May 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 99 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Foul Play at ea.oac.uci.edu (3)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 27 May 1996 00:57:15 -0700

From:  Brett Gerry  bgerry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCI.EDU 

Subject: Re: Foul Play at ea.oac.uci.edu



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Last night *67* people on your system all subscribed to ADS-L -- all

with Smith at the ends of their names. I sent e-mail to postmaster[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]

ea.oac.uci.edu asking what was going on but haven't heard anything

yet from him/her.



    I never subscribed to this listserv.... I was also subscribed to about =

a dozen others for some reason. Thanks for removing me... I'll have to =

figure out some way of unsubscribing to all the others though.



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------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 27 May 1996 06:24:35 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Foul Play at ea.oac.uci.edu



   I never subscribed to this listserv.... I was also subscribed to about

  a dozen others for some reason. Thanks for removing me... I'll have to

  figure out some way of unsubscribing to all the others though.



I've removed all the ea.oac.uci.edu addresses, but I'm posting this to

the list in case anybody else is interested in the end of the story. I

got a reply from the postmaster at UCI last night saying that somebody

had gotten into an account on their system and set up scripts to subscribe

lots of people to lots of lists. Why anybody would find that amusing I

don't know. I found it highly unamusing to sit there deleting sixty-seven

addresses yesterday. And I started wondering what a mess the mailboxes of

the innocent victims would be in if the prankster included any really

active lists in the game-playing. At least ADS-L has low volume.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 27 May 1996 10:17:16 -0700

From:  David Goldstein-Shirley  dsgoldst[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EA.OAC.UCI.EDU 

Subject: Re: Foul Play at ea.oac.uci.edu



Subscribers,



I am one of the UCI victims of the prankster who subscribed us to ADS-L.

Your list was one of at least 100 worldwide to which we were subscribed.



I regret that someone at our institution thought this was amusing. It

has been a nightmare for us, as well as for our system administrator.



Thank you for unsubscribing us. That's one down; 99 to go.



By the way, I am not a linguist but I have found your conversations

pretty interesting! Nevertheless, I need to get off as many lists as I

can at this point.



Cybervulnerably yours,



David Goldstein-Shirley

University of California, Irvine



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 26 May 1996 to 27 May 1996

************************************************





There are 7 messages totalling 234 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. ads ad humor to ADS-L

 2. (in)service, v.t. -Reply

 3. Client (3)

 4. On (and off) my case... (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 28 May 1996 04:52:01 -0700

From:  Crissie Trigger  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: ads ad humor to ADS-L



A little distraction on a slow day:







2 female Boston Terrier puppies, 7 wks old, Perfect markings,

    555-1234. Leave mess.

Lost: small apricot poodle. Reward. Neutered. Like one of the

    family.

Dinner Special -- Turkey $2.35; Chicken or Beef $2.25; Children

    $2.00. (Taken from the menu at Newt's Diner, no doubt)

For sale: an antique desk suitable for lady with thick legs and

    large drawers.

Four-poster bed, 101 years old. Perfect for antique lover.

Now is your chance to have your ears pierced and get an extra

    pair to take home, too.

Wanted: 50 girls for stripping machine operators in factory.

Wanted: Unmarried girls to pick fresh fruit and produce at night.

We do not tear your clothing with machinery. We do it carefully

    by hand.

For Sale. Three canaries of undermined sex.

For Sale -- Eight puppies from a German Shepperd and an Alaskan

    Hussy.

Great Dames for sale.

Have several very old dresses from grandmother in beautiful

    condition.

Tired of cleaning yourself? Let me do it.

Dog for sale: eats anything and is fond of children.

Vacation Special: have your home exterminated.

Mt. Kilimanjaro, the breathtaking backdrop for the Serena Lodge.

    Swim in the lovely pool while you drink it all in.

Get rid of aunts: Zap does the job in 24 hours.

Sheer stockings. Designed for fancy dress, but so serviceable

    that lots of women wear nothing else.

Stock up and save. Limit: one.

For Rent: 6-room hated apartment.

Man, honest. Will take anything.

Wanted: chambermaid in rectory. Love in, $200 a month. References

    required.

Man wanted to work in dynamite factory. Must be willing to

    travel.

Used Cars: Why go elsewhere to be cheated? Come here first!

Christmans tag-sale. Handmade gifts for the hard-to-find person.

Wanted: Hair-cutter. Excellent growth potential.

Wanted. Man to take care of cow that does not smoke or drink.

3-year-old teacher need for pre-school. Experience preferred.

Our experienced Mom will care of your child. Fenced yard, meals,

    and smacks included.

Our bikinis are exciting. They are simply the tops.

Auto Repair Service. Free pick-up and delivery. Try us once,

    you'll never go anywhere again.

Illiterate? Write today for free help.

Girl wanted to assist magician in cutting-off-head illusion. Blue

    Cross and salary.

Wanted. Widower with school-age children requires person to

    assume general housekeeping duties. Must be capable of

    contributing to growth of family.

And now, the Superstore--unequaled in size, unmatched in variety,

    unrivaled inconvenience.

We will oil your sewing machine and adjust tension in your home

    for $1.00.



   =======================================================



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 28 May 1996 09:23:12 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: (in)service, v.t. -Reply



Try nursing for deliberately obfuscating jargon. I encounter "client"

constantly when editing nursing books--a nurse told me they don't

consider it depersonalizing, it's a way of denoting wellness (another of

my favorite overused nursing terms)--for instance, in gerontological

nursing, they don't wish to imply that aging is an illness, so they prefer

client to patient. An admirable aim, but boy do they take it too far.



I love encountering the serviced/served slip-up. I grew up on a farm too.



Molly Connors (married name, accounts not changed yet)

dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phl.lrpub.com



    Beverly Flanigan  FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

05/25/96 07:56pm    EXCERPTED

 with me but then added that she often feels these children aren't

 "serviced" adequately. Having grown up on a farm in Minnesota, I

 know another meaning for "serviced." Talk about adding insult to

 injury.

 Educationese is full of such depersonalizing jargon, as is

 Speech/Hearing Clinic talk, where even schoolchildren are "clients."



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 28 May 1996 09:58:20 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Client



"Client" is also the term used by psychological counselors for the people

that come to see them for professional help. Use of the word seems to be

an attempt to be non-judgmental about people with different kinds of

psychological needs. Counselors want people in general to know that one

may seek counseling without having a serious disorder or problem. Ideally,

the services they provide can be summarized in counseling terms as

"personal development."













Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 28 May 1996 10:54:07 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: Client



clients are also what speech therapists have, and i suppose what

most medical professionals and quasi-medical professionals have.

(except, i suspect, doctors.) social workers have them too.



i don't mind it at all--i find the term a bit empowering (as opposed

to _patient_). _client_ underscores the fact that i can take my

business elsewhere, should i be unhappy with the service i'm getting.

(and i'm anything but patient with medical professionals.)



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 28 May 1996 13:15:58 -0500

From:  Silke Van Ness  sv478[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU 

Subject: Re: Client



My understanding is that one needs an M.D. degree to be allowed to use

the term patient. A psychiatrist has patients or has that been changed to

client now?



--

Silke Van Ness

Germanic & Slavic Languages and Literatures

University at Albany, SUNY  HU 216

Albany, NY 12222

E-mail: sv478[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cnsvax.albany.edu Ph: (518)442-4122 Fax:(5l8)442-4217



On Tue, 28 May 1996, Wayne Glowka wrote:



  "Client" is also the term used by psychological counselors for the people

  that come to see them for professional help. Use of the word seems to be

  an attempt to be non-judgmental about people with different kinds of

  psychological needs. Counselors want people in general to know that one

  may seek counseling without having a serious disorder or problem. Ideally,

  the services they provide can be summarized in counseling terms as

  "personal development."

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Wayne Glowka

  Professor of English

  Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

  Georgia College

  Milledgeville, GA 31061

  912-453-4222

  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 28 May 1996 17:01:06 -0400

From:  Jules Levin  jflevin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCRAC1.UCR.EDU 

Subject: On (and off) my case...



Speaking of social workers (in the "client" discussion), is there any

disagreement that the expressions "to be on someone's case" and "get off my

case...", referring to hassling someone about anything, probably arose in

Welfare recipient jargon. A social worker has X # of cases; when they start

coming around and asking awkward questions it is because they are working

"on your case." So you tell them to "get off my case!!"

As I recall, these expressions entered general usage (baby-boomer and

younger) from below; I first heard them as underclass slang...

Any disagreement?



Jules Levin

UCR

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 28 May 1996 17:32:51 PDT

From:  Duane Campbell  dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPIX.NET 

Subject: Re: On (and off) my case...



--- On Tue, 28 May 1996 17:01:06 -0400 Jules Levin  jflevin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCRAC1.UCR.EDU 

wrote:



 Speaking of social workers (in the "client" discussion), is there any

 disagreement that the expressions "to be on someone's case" and "get off my

 case...", referring to hassling someone about anything, probably arose in

 Welfare recipient jargon.



I think it goes back further than that. In my personal experience, it refers

to police.







-------------------------------------

Duane Campbell

dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net



In the beginning the Earth was without form and void.

Why didn't they leave well enough alone?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 27 May 1996 to 28 May 1996

************************************************





There are 6 messages totalling 227 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. grow up (3)

 2. PADS 79

 3. Name that person, or a question for Virginia

 4. vowels for Bosnia



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 29 May 1996 00:19:01 -0700

From:  david k deford  deforddk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CBVCP.COM 

Subject: grow up



i really enjoyed the "a little distraction on a slow day" collection.



i must, however, strongly protest the insulting little editorial dig at

the Honorable Speaker of the United States House of Representatives,

Newt Gingrich.



if you could only understand how truly ignorant this kind of

anti-responsible, childish demonization of a truly awesome man makes you

appear, you would cry in shame.



why prostitute yourself to support the people who labor to destroy the

good in America? why couldn't you just let the humor roar forth on its

own without your little political meddling?



grow up.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 29 May 1996 19:31:44 +0800

From:  Russ McClay  mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PROQC.COM.TW 

Subject: Re: grow up



Well...the little distraction "grows"...



Personally I don't give a hoot about Newt. He arrived

in the Public Light long after I left the country and

therefore know little about him other than his meteroic

rise to fame which, for me, signals the likelihood of

meteroic vaporization.



No newts here in Taipei. A few giant salamanders perhaps.



ODD: Has "strategize" been heard outside of the Flintstone's

movie?



Dialectically,

Russ

--

m c c l a y

...................................................................

                        mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]proqc.com.tw

                   http://www.proqc.com/~mcclay/



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 29 May 1996 07:16:39 PDT

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: Re: grow up



  i really enjoyed the "a little distraction on a slow day" collection.

  

  i must, however, strongly protest the insulting little editorial dig at

  the Honorable Speaker of the United States House of Representatives,

  Newt Gingrich.

  

  if you could only understand how truly ignorant this kind of

  anti-responsible, childish demonization of a truly awesome man makes you

  appear, you would cry in shame.

  

  why prostitute yourself to support the people who labor to destroy the

  good in America? why couldn't you just let the humor roar forth on its

  own without your little political meddling?

  

  grow up.



ROTFL. I really love it when a little humor is thrown in here too.



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 29 May 1996 16:23:59 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: PADS 79



At long last, the American Dialect Society is pleased to announce publication

of:



Publication of the American Dialect Society No. 79,

Under Cover of Law: More on the Legality of Surreptitious Recordings

by Thomas E. Murray with the assistance of Carmin D. Ross-Murray.



This is a sequel to their essay "On the Legality and Ethics of Surreptitious

Recording" in PADS 76 (1991). The new volume updates the information on

federal and state laws, offers further explanations, and answers questions

posed by readers of that essay.



The 80-page volume, PADS 79, is available for $12 plus shipping from the

University of Alabama Press, Box 870380, Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35487-0380;

phone (800) 825-9980. The earlier 88-page volume, PADS 76, is available for

$11.



But there is another way. All members of the American Dialect Society get

issues of PADS as part of their membership. If you are a current member, you

will get your copy soon; the mailing is being prepared in Tuscaloosa right

now. If you are not yet a member but join by June 30, your membership will

include PADS 79.



Membership is $30 per calendar year, $15 for students. Send payment to ADS

Executive Secretary Allan Metcalf, English Department, MacMurray College,

Jacksonville, Illinois 62650. For further information on ADS, see our Web

site, http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/ADS/



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 29 May 1996 17:58:24 EDT

From:  Terry Lynn Irons  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Name that person, or a question for Virginia



I am attempting to gather some information about several people who

conducted interviews as field workers for the LANCS project--it seems

like there were a blue million of them. Any help identifying the field

workers, locating them ,or info about them will be useful.



Name      Worked in



Mackey     Michigan



Reynard     Ohio

Richmond    Ohio

Obie      Ohio

Bender     Ohio, Indiana

Motherwell (SP) Ohio, Indiana (?)



Billiard    Indiana

Carmony     Indiana

Dykes      Indiana

Orrickk     Indiana



Stephens    Illinois

Wilson     Illinois

Garbutt     Illinois, Kentucky



I should probably know who some of these people are, but I am just a

youngster!



Terry Irons





--

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 29 May 1996 17:00:35 -0600

From:  Ellen Johnson  EJOHNSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU 

Subject: vowels for Bosnia



I've been away for a couple of weeks. Forgive me if you've already seen this.

Ellen





     

       CLINTON DEPLOYS VOWELS TO BOSNIA

       Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients

     

     Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President Clinton

   announced US plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn region of

   Bosnia. The deployment, the largest of its kind in American history, will

   provide the region with the critically needed letters A,E,I,O and U, and is

   hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable.

     

     "For six years, we have stood by while names like Ygrjvslhv and Tzlynhr

   and Glrm have been horribly butchered by millions around the world," Clinton

   said. "Today, the United States must finally stand up and say 'Enough.' It

   is time the people of Bosnia finally had some vowels in their

     incomprehensible words. The US is proud to lead the crusade in this noble

   endeavour."

     

     The deployment, dubbed Operation Vowel Storm by the State Department, is

   set for early next week, with the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and

   Grzny slated to be the first recipients. Two C-130 transport planes, each

   carrying over 500 24-count boxes of "E's," will fly from Andrews Air Force

   Base across the Atlantic and airdrop the letters over the cities.

     

     Citizens of Grzny and Sjlbvdnzv eagerly await the arrival of the vowels.

   "My God, I do not think we can last another day," Trszg Grzdnjkln, 44, said.

   "I have six children and none of them has a name that is understandable to

   me or to anyone else. Mr. Clinton, please send my poor, wretched family

   just one 'E.' Please."

     

     If the initial airlift is successful, Clinton said the United States will

   go ahead with full-scale vowel deployment, with C-130's airdropping

   thousands more letters over every area of Bosnia. Other nations are

   expected to pitch in as well, including 10,000 British "A's" and 6,500

   Canadian "U's."

     Japan, rich in A's and O's, was asked to participate, but declined.

     

     "With these valuable letters, the people of war-ravaged Bosnia will be

   able to make some terrific new words," Clinton said. "It should be very

   exciting for them, and much easier for us to read their maps."

     

     Linguists praise the US's decision to send the vowels. For decades they

   have struggled with the hard consonants and difficult pronunciation of most

   Slavic words. "Vowels are crucial to construction of all language," an

   Illinois Institute of Technology multimedia specialist said. "Without them,

   it would be difficult to utter a single word, much less organize a coherent

   sentence. Please, just don't get me started on the moon-man languages they

   use in those Eastern European countries."

     

     According to the multimedia specialist who wished to remain anonymous,

   once the Bosnians have vowels, they will be able to construct such valuable

   sentences as: "The potatoes are ready;" "I believe it will rain." and "Can

   you give me another box of ammo and a few grenades?"

     

     The airdrop represents the largest deployment of any letter to a foreign

   country since 1979. During the summer of that year, President Jimmy Carter

   ordered the shipment of 92,000 consonants to Ethiopia, providing cities

   like Ouaouoaua, Eaoiiuae, and Aao with vital, life-giving supplies of L's,

   S's and T's. The consonant-relief effort failed, however, when vast

   quantities of the letters were intercepted and horded by violent, gun-toting

   warlords.

     

   

 j

 



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End of ADS-L Digest - 28 May 1996 to 29 May 1996

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There is one message totalling 37 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. LJP 2.1-2 - finally!



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 30 May 1996 15:47:12 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: LJP 2.1-2 - finally!



URL: http://ljp.la.utk.edu



Language in the Judicial Process

Special Double Issue!

CONTENTS

Volume 2, Numbers 1 & 2

May 1996



Joint International Conference on Law and Society:

Abstracts of papers to be given at the conference.



Research in Progress: A call for involvement in an exciting

research project.



New Books! New books of interest to language and law

professionals. Opportunities for reviewers.



Current citations in the field. With new additions since last issue

emphasized in bold text.



Missing an issue? Be sure and check out the LJP archives.



Last Updated: 05/20/96

Analyst/Contact: Bethany K. Dumas, Editor

E-Mail Address: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



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End of ADS-L Digest - 29 May 1996 to 30 May 1996

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There are 2 messages totalling 51 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. swooft/rustin

 2. vowels for Bosnia



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 31 May 1996 16:44:38 -0600

From:  "Gregory J. Pulliam"  gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU 

Subject: swooft/rustin



Growing up in Mississippi, I used (and still use) "swooft" (_oo_ rhymes

with the "oo" in "book") in negative sentences to describe a person or

action that failed to display a lot of intelligence, as in "he's not too

swooft" or "that wasn't very swooft." Of course the usage parallels

precisely (as far as I can gather) the more standard use of "swift."

Is there regional variation in usage for "swooft"?



In the Ms delta, the term "rustin" was used (1975-77) to refer to a person

considered to be more or less of a bumpkin. It was college-age folks using

the term, and I have never heard it anywhere (or anytime) else.

Anybody else heard it?

Greg Pulliam



Gregory Pulliam

Illinois Institute of Technology

Chicago, IL

gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.acc.iit.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 31 May 1996 16:49:56 -0600

From:  "Gregory J. Pulliam"  gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU 

Subject: Re: vowels for Bosnia



   Illinois Institute of Technology multimedia specialist said. "Without them,

   it would be difficult to utter a single word, much less organize a coherent

   sentence. Please, just don't get me started on the moon-man languages they

   use in those Eastern European countries."

     

     According to the multimedia specialist who wished to remain anonymous,

   once the Bosnians have vowels, they will be able to construct such valuable

   sentences as: "The potatoes are ready;" "I believe it will rain." and "Can

   you give me another box of ammo and a few grenades?"



Forgive me, but I'm trying to figure out who's riffing on IIT, and why.

Not that they shouldn't, of course--there's no shortage of potential

material here.

Greg Pulliam

Illinois Institute of Technology



Gregory Pulliam

Illinois Institute of Technology

Chicago, IL

gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.acc.iit.edu



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End of ADS-L Digest - 30 May 1996 to 31 May 1996

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