Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:16:23 -0600
From: Thomas Creswell creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET
Subject: Re: THIS X SUCKS and fellatio

Any concrete or hard evidence that fellatio is the primary underlying reference
in This X Sucks is obviously not to be found in Nexis or the Archives of the
York Times or even in the citation files of well edited dictionaries. The
expressions "To Suck Cock" and "Cocksucker" rarely, if ever appear in such
edited,printed contexts.

The written evidence for such terms is, or was, largely to be found in washroom
epigraphy, and the best concentrated source of such evidence, although dated by
now, is Allen Walker Read's _Classic American Graffiti_, published originally
in 1935 in a private printing of 65 copies by Allen himself, and republished by
Reinhold Aman's _Maledicta_ 1977.

sv _cock_, the following, all given with location and date of reading of the

"Who wants to get his cock sucked off."
"My cock is only 10 in. long so if anyone would like to suck, meet me."
"I have a big cock and I like to have it sucked."
"I suck big cocks for fun."
"Learn to spell, kid, you big cocksucker."
"Ashes to ashes and dust to dust,
suck you cocksucker your cock can rust"
"... so if anyone would like to suck meet me . . .
[Other handwriting] suck it yourself you big cocksucker"
"All cocksuckers register here"

Allen Wal;ker Read's inscriptions were all collected during the late 20's and
early 30's in visits to the washrooms of National Parks, railway stations, and
other public places.

Evidence of the healthy survival of _cock_ in the sense "penis" is found in
RHHDAS, which supplies citations dating from 1450 to 1920. For _cocksucker_,
there are
citations ranging from Farmer and Henley 1898 to the late 80's in various

All the preceding is evidence of wide, even though not often printed use of
_cock_ and _cocksucker_.

What was in the mind of the clever teenager(?) who first said "This X sucks"
cannot, of course, be known. But the frequency and currency of _cocksucker_
_to suck cock_ are so well established and widespread in 20th century male oral
(please excuse) usage that the likelihood that any other source underlies the
expression "This X sucks" is quite remote.

RonButters wrote:

In a message dated 3/31/98 4:05:33 AM, salovesh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] wrote:

It wasn't what came after the word "suck" that made a difference: it was
the elided predecessor that made sense to these kids. THEIR context was
the word "cocksucker" and its derivatives.

Maybe; maybe sometimes--but how does one KNOW this? Is there any evidence
other than anecdotal assumption and projection (usually not from the users
themselves, but from their shocked and horrified teachers and parents)? I
grant you that when a high school student in 1965 read Shakespeare's "Where
the bee sucks there suck I" he or she may have associated "sucks" with
fellatio--or nursing--or childish all-day-sucker activity. But what CONCRETE
evidence is there that fellatio is primary?

PS: My spell-checker just asked me if I would like to add "cocksucker" and
"fellatio" to the dictionary. AOL is sooo prudish!