Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 14:35:10 -0500 From: Tom Klingler Subject: Re: "...and them..." Since the "...and them..." thread has been picked up again, I thought I might mention (in case someone else didn't do it earlier) that a similar phenomenon is found in a number of Creole languages, apparently without negative connotation. In each case I know of, the postnominal plural marker whose form derives from a 3pl. pronoun is placed after a proper name to render a meaning equivalent to that of "X and them" in English, that is, "X and his or her family" or "X and people associated with X." Ingrid Neumann (_Le creole de Breaux Bridge, Louisiane..._, Buske, 1985) notes the following examples from Louisiana Creole: Sa se pu Velma-je. "That's for Velma and her family." Doktoer Grajo~, sa s te doktoer a mom-je. "Doctor Graillant was the doctor of my mother and her family." Neumann also cites examples from Alleyne (_Comparative Afro-American_, Karoma, 1980) for several English-based creoles and one from Goodman (_A comparative study of Creole French dialects_, Mouton, 1964) for Dominican Creole. Alleyne's example from Jamaica is Mieri dem "Mary and her friends" Goodman's example from Dominican Creole is Mado yo ale beye "Mado 'and company' have gone (to) bathe." It would be interesting to know if spoken French has anything resembling the "...and them..." structure which might have served as a model for the "X-je/-yo" constructions in the French-based creoles. Tom ****************************************************************************** Tom Klingler Department of French and Italian Tulane University New Orleans, LA 70118 (504) 862-3120 (office) (504) 865-8020 Email: klingler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]