April 1-16, 1997
----------------------

There are 15 messages totalling 359 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:

 1. Query (4)
 2. last call for abstracts: n/mla forum on deixis
 3. <No subject given>
 4. Help
 5. final call for papers
 6. m/mla abstracts
 7. noozer (2)
 8. Spanglish,Codeswitching,or borrowed words (2)
 9. ADS session at M/MLA
 10. Same Fire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 06:32:19 -0500
From:  "Joseph C. Salmons" <jsalmons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Query
A grad student in our department (Cordelia Scharpf) is starting to work on
some fiction written here and abroad in German by Mathilde Franziska Anneke,
an abolitionist and early feminist leader. Much of the work deals with
slavery. Anneke's representation of African-American speech owes much to
English literary works of the time, but contains other elements as well.
Some of these are Anglicisms, some stereotypical foreign talk and so on.

Can anybody recommend good recent work on the representation of African-
American speech in 19th c. literature? Has anything at all been done on
this topic using literature in languages other than English?

Thanks,
joe salmons
jsalmons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu 
------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:06:49 -0500
From:  Elizabeth Gibbens <gibbens[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NYTIMES.COM>
Subject: Re: Query

Dear Professor Salmons:

    I don't have a direct answer for you, but Claudia Tate in the George
Washington University English Department is a good person to ask. She is a
scholar of late nineteenth- and early twentieth-century African-American
literature and serves on the editorial board of _The Journal of American
Literature_. The telephone number of the GW English Dept. is (202) 994-6180.

                    Elizabeth Gibbens

At 06:32 AM 4/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>A grad student in our department (Cordelia Scharpf) is starting to work on
>some fiction written here and abroad in German by Mathilde Franziska Anneke,
>an abolitionist and early feminist leader. Much of the work deals with
>slavery. Anneke's representation of African-American speech owes much to
>English literary works of the time, but contains other elements as well.
>Some of these are Anglicisms, some stereotypical foreign talk and so on.
>
>Can anybody recommend good recent work on the representation of African-
>American speech in 19th c. literature? Has anything at all been done on
>this topic using literature in languages other than English?
>
>Thanks,
>joe salmons
>jsalmons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu 
>
>
Elizabeth Gibbens
Research Assistant
Mr. William Safire, The New York Times

-----------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:34:39 -0600
From:  "Timothy C. Frazer" <mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Query

On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Joseph C. Salmons wrote:

A grad student in our department (Cordelia Scharpf) is starting to work on
> some fiction written here and abroad in German by Mathilde Franziska Anneke,
> an abolitionist and early feminist leader. Much of the work deals with
> slavery. Anneke's representation of African-American speech owes much to
> English literary works of the time, but contains other elements as well.
> Some of these are Anglicisms, some stereotypical foreign talk and so on.
>
> Can anybody recommend good recent work on the representation of African-
> American speech in 19th c. literature? Has anything at all been done on
> this topic using literature in languages other than English?

1. In a recent biography of Sojourner Truth (Princeton UP), it states that
many of her speech were reproduced in the press in a "mock southern"
dialect, even though she spent her life in New York state and spoke Dutch
as a first language. This suggests that there was a stereotype tradtion
for representing VBE in lit.

2. There might be something in the history of minstrelsy. A book called
"Blacking Up" has been recommended to me but I haven't gotten around to
reading it yet.

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:47:45 -0500
From:  "by way of BETH LEE SIMON <SIMON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu>"
     <SIMON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: last call for abstracts: n/mla forum on deixis

Last call to submit an abstract or proposal to participate

            CALL FOR ABSTRACTS/PROPOSALS

    STUDIES IN DEIXIS: WORKING THE MARGINS OF PRAGMATICS AND
SEMANTICS

       for the Midwest Modern Language Association Meeting,
       Chicago, November 6-8, 1997, Ramada Congress Hotel

Abstracts are being accepted for "Studies in Deixis: Working the
Margins of Pragmatics and Semantics." The multidimensionality of
deixis, a linguistic phenomenon at the heart of communication,
remains one of the most intriguing aspects of human language. It is
impossible to imagine communication that functions without deixis.
Deictic elements such as pronouns, demonstrative adjectives, and
spatial or temporal adverbs, express a user-centered perspective on
time, place and person relationships in the social context of an
utterance; simultaneously, they denote formal grammatical functions
within an utterance. The aim of the forum is to bring together
scholars working on different aspects of deixis--from formal
linguistics to stylistics--to discuss the activity that occurs at
the intersection of language and reality/structure and function.
Publication of the proceedings is planned.

Abstracts/proposals should be a maximum of 150 words in length and
must be received by Friday, April 4, 1997.

Send abstracts (e-mail or fax preferred) to:

Beth Lee Simon
Dept. of English and Linguistics
Indiana University Purdue University
Fort Wayne, IN 46805
simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu 
fax:   219-481-6985

and/or

Anna Fellegy, Department of English, 207 Lind Hall, #185,
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis MN 55455
felle001[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]maroon.tc.umn.edu 

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:43:21 -0500
From:  "Thomas J. Creswell" <creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET>
Subject: <No subject given>

-- [ From: Thomas J. Creswell * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Help

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 11:22:01 -0500
From:  "Thomas J. Creswell" <creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET>
Subject: Help

-- [ From: Thomas J. Creswell * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Please ignore and forgive my misposted cry for help. I am trying to track
down some strayed email and meant to send the message to Listserv rather
than ADS-L.

tom

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:55:46 -0600
From:  Cynthia Bernstein <bernscy[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Query

A couple essays in _Language Variety in the South Revisited_ (coming out
in a couple months from The University of Alabama Press) concern literary
representations of AAE. In "An Early Representation of African-American
English," Marianne Cooley (Univ. of Houston) discusses features of AAE
represented in productions of _The Padlock_ in the late 18th and early
19th centuries. Katherine Wyly Mille (U of North Carolina, Greensboro)
writes about Ambrose Gonzales's Gullah.
Cynthia Bernstein

On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Joseph C. Salmons wrote:

> A grad student in our department (Cordelia Scharpf) is starting to work on
> some fiction written here and abroad in German by Mathilde Franziska Anneke,
> an abolitionist and early feminist leader. Much of the work deals with
> slavery. Anneke's representation of African-American speech owes much to
> English literary works of the time, but contains other elements as well.
> Some of these are Anglicisms, some stereotypical foreign talk and so on.
>
> Can anybody recommend good recent work on the representation of African-
> American speech in 19th c. literature? Has anything at all been done on
> this topic using literature in languages other than English?
>
> Thanks,
> joe salmons
> jsalmons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu 
>

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:18:00 -0500
From:  Tom Beckner <TMBECKNER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TAYLORU.EDU>
Subject: final call for papers

Final call for abstracts/proposals for ADS session
in association with Midwest Modern Langauge Association Meeting
Chicago, November 6-8, 1997
Ramada Congress Hotel

Tpoic open

Abstracts should be approx. 2000 words in length and must be received by
April 4, 1997. E-mail preferred.

Send to:
tmbeckner[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tayloru.edu 

W. Thomas beckner, Ph.D.
Taylor University--Ft. Wayne Campus
1025 West Rudisill Blvd.
Ft. Wayne, IN 46807

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:21:13 EST
From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 
Subject: m/mla abstracts

I see I typed "n/mla". You know I mean "m/mla".


beth simon

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:23:59 -0500
From:  Ron Butters <RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: noozer

I'm wondering if anyone knows the term NOOZER 'a child's cap' from the
Shenandoah Valley?

I know I should go look at my volume III of DARE before I ask, but (I blush
to say) I haven't yet got around to buying my volume III of DARE.

***By the way, can I still get DARE3 at an ADS discount?***

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:46:24 -0600
From:  Ditra Henry <D-Henry1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spanglish,Codeswitching,or borrowed words

    Yesterday, in my semantics course, we got into a big discussion about
whether or not there is something we can call Spanglish? There were many
examples of codeswitching and why people code switch and how they do it
and then
the discussion went to the idea of borrowed words such as pushale, leading
to the comment that many young Amercan Spanish speakers were even trying
to conjugate pusha in the Spanish forms. Also, the discussion led to the
idea that many young Spanish speakers use constructions in spanish that
are very unfamiliar to those who come from other countries. For example,
 a young person born in Guatemala and raised in the US will go
back to Guatemala and are told that their Spaninsh has an accent o
Gutemalams say that they don't understand their Spanish.
    Next, I asked some young people I know.
These university students that have been here or grwon up here and come
from Spanish speaking households said they start to use the
vocabulary of the people that come from the different spanish speaking
countries when they are addressing them and so forth. So I believe that
there is a dialect of Spanish that can be described as Spanglish. what
are others findings on this?

Ditra Henry
Northeastern Illinois University
Chicago

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:13:20 -0600
From:  Dennis Baron <debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spanglish,Codeswitching,or borrowed words

I haven't got them here, but last week there was an op-ed piece and two
letters in the NY Times on the question of Spanglish. You can probably
retrieve them from the NYTimes web site, which I believe is
www.nytimes.com.

Dennis

>    Yesterday, in my semantics course, we got into a big discussion about
>whether or not there is something we can call Spanglish? There were many
>examples of codeswitching and why people code switch and how they do it
>and then
>the discussion went to the idea of borrowed words such as pushale, leading
>to the comment that many young Amercan Spanish speakers were even trying
>to conjugate pusha in the Spanish forms. Also, the discussion led to the
>idea that many young Spanish speakers use constructions in spanish that
>are very unfamiliar to those who come from other countries. For example,
> a young person born in Guatemala and raised in the US will go
>back to Guatemala and are told that their Spaninsh has an accent o
>Gutemalams say that they don't understand their Spanish.
>    Next, I asked some young people I know.
>These university students that have been here or grwon up here and come
>from Spanish speaking households said they start to use the
>vocabulary of the people that come from the different spanish speaking
>countries when they are addressing them and so forth. So I believe that
>there is a dialect of Spanish that can be described as Spanglish. what
>are others findings on this?
>
>Ditra Henry
>Northeastern Illinois University
>Chicago

Dennis Baron                      debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu 

Department of English             office: 217-333-2392
University of Illinois                fax: 217-333-4321
608 South Wright Street            home: 217-384-1683
Urbana, Illinois 61801  http://www.english.uiuc.edu/baron 

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:37:26 -0500
From:  Tom Beckner <TMBECKNER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TAYLORU.EDU>
Subject: ADS session at M/MLA

Sorry--
abstracts of 200 words (not 2000) would be appropriate. Thanks for spotting
the error Beth!

Tom Beckner

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:19:49 -0600
From:  Joan Houston Hall <jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: noozer

DARE seems to have missed "noozer." Ron, if you'll tell me more, I'll put
it in the file for an updated edition.

The coupon on the back of your September 1996 issue of NADS offers 20% off
Volumes I, II, and/or III of DARE, and it's good through June 30, 1997.

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:40:43 -0500
From:  Grant Barrett <gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM>
Subject: Same Fire

Someone from Coshocton, Ohio, just started working here. She told me the story:

A woman was accused of spreading gossip by her neighbor. The woman said she did not have a
thing to do with starting it, but had heard about it, and may have passed it on. The neighbor said,
"That's the same fire."

Never heard "that's the same fire" (fahr). Anybody?

Grant Barrett
gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dfjp.com 

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 31 Mar 1997 to 1 Apr 1997
***********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 1 Apr 1997 to 2 Apr 1997

There are 7 messages totalling 214 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Spanglish,Codeswitching,or borrowed words
 2. MARCH MADNESS #3: The Al McGuire Glossary
 3. Cyber slang
 4. For to .... (3)
 5. For to...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:12:32 -0600
From:  Dennis Baron <debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spanglish,Codeswitching,or borrowed words

I realized today that not all the NY Times Spanglish discussion is
available on its website.
Here are the relevant articles and dates, so far (the Echevarria piece is
on the web as of today):

3/25/97 pp. A1; A14 Lizette Alvarez, "It's the talk of Nueva York: The
hybrid called Spanglish."
3/28/97 p. A19, Roberto Gonzalez Echevarria (Yale Spanish Prof), "Is
'Spanglish' a language?"
3/29/97 p. 18, 2 letters
3/31/97 p. A10, 2 letters
4/1/97 1 letter

I've also found a number of interesting sites by doing a keyword search for
"Spanglish" on Netscape.

Dennis
__

Dennis Baron                      debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Department of English             office: 217-333-2392
University of Illinois                fax: 217-333-4321
608 South Wright Street            home: 217-384-1683
Urbana, Illinois 61801  http://www.english.uiuc.edu/baron

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:25:24 EST
From:  Larry Horn <LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU>
Subject: MARCH MADNESS #3: The Al McGuire Glossary

In connection with the following, it's worth noting that many of these ARE used
by other announcers today. A couple of impressionistic comments follow.
I don't mean to impugn Al McGuire or his influence, just to note that at least
of these are more widespread in their distribution.
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
   This is from The Sporting News, 29 March 1980, pg. 12, col. 3. Few of
the terms are used today by other announcers:

   (...) With the NCAA tournament coming to a climax in Indianapolis,
 it's time to bone up on some Al McGuireisms:

AIRCRAFT CARRIER: The ultimate big man--a franchise maker.
BELLY: The weaknesses on the other team.
CHECKERBOARD: Black/white situation.
CUPCAKE: A team that comes down from North Dakota and plays with snowshoes.
CURTAIN TIME: Pick up the hymn books, it's all over.
DANCE-HALL PLAYER: A fella that thinks he can score more than 2 points at
once.

  [Note: not a hard feat now, in the day of the three-point shot! LH]

DYNAMITE: Out of sight. Top shelf.
DUNKIRK: A blowout, that's all she wrote.
EAST CUPCAKE: An easy opponent; A chance to play reserves.
FRENCH PASTRY: Hollywood, going for Oscar, performing unnecessarily.
A KEEPER: Quality player, good to be around; Bo Derek.
LAST MASS AT SUMMER RESORT: Lightning fast.
MERRY-GO-ROUND: Yellow ribbons and winning tourneys.
NOSE-BLEEDER: A guy who can sky; a super rebounder.
OUT-OF-THE-GATE: The first three minutes; sets the norm of the game.
PARK AVENUE: Top shelf, the ultimate in class.
PUSH: Even; a cliffhanger.
QUICK WHISTLE: High school whistle.
SEASHELLS AND BALLOONS: Pleasing, desirable.
SLOW WHISTLE: NBA whistle; refs blow it slower.
TAP CITY: It's all over; Auerbach's cigar!

 [If I'm not mistaken, an extension of a term from table stakes poker. LH]

TENTH AVENUE ROUGH: West Side Story; a physical game.
THREE O'CLOCK SHOOTER: Great practice player, zero in game.
THOROUGHBRED: God given athlete or a Final Four team.
UPTICK: Team that hasn't reached full potential.
WHISTLE BLOWER: With three officials, the third official.
WHITE KNUCKLER: Dow to the wire.
----------------------------------------
Some of these have been around forever. "White knuckler", "thoroughbred" (for
the "blue chipper" or "can't-miss prospect"), and "push", inter no doubt alia,
are not limited to basketball contexts. The last comes from gamblers' lingo:
a push (or toss-up) is one in which neither team is favored; it's also a game
bet against the spread which you neither win nor lose because the outcome was
exactly on the spread (e.g. one team winning by 3). On the whistles, it's
worth noting that the metaphor extends further: not only are there slow
whistles (ones the refs choose not to blow regardless of the physical nature
of the combat--good recent example was the semi-finals of the women's tourna-
ment last week between Stanford and Old Dominion)--and fast whistles (ones the
refs are all too willing to blow, resulting in "shadow fouls"). There's also
what happens in the last minute of a game (hockey or basketball) or in overtime
when officials reluctant to alter the outcome of a game are said to "swallow
their whistles". Makes 'em hard to blow. I'm waiting for its extension to
football, where the official would have to swallow his flag.

Larry

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 2 Apr 1997 22:07:36 -0100
From:  Mike FOX-ecki <mlisecki[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREE.POLBOX.PL>
Subject: Re: Cyber slang

Hi!
I'm sorry to tell you that I have nothing so far for the topic but the
fact is that I'm in need too. I'm attempting to gather materials for my
thesis (Interdisciplinary study of the Language of the Internet on the
basis of the selected services) in which I would like to concentrate
mainly on the structure of the language on IRC (morphology, syntax, and
pragmatics perhaps). There are no materials available here where I live
(Poland) for the topic is completely new (to tell you the truth, it
seems nobody has ever done that !) so I'm hoping to get all the data and
bibliography over the internet. I've invested my whole savings into it
and I must tell you that here in Poland communication is very expensive
(esp. for a part time working student like me).
Anyway, should I find anyting on your topic I will let you know for I'll
surely be browsing through the pages which are quite similar to that
topic of yours.
All the same, I'd like to ask you to post my call to anybody who might
know anything about this and I will do the same.
Any results will be posted at my home page which presently is under
construction but do visit it some time later.
You surely know the Jargon File, but I am putting the url here just in
case <http://dante.creighton.edu/jargon/jargon.html>. This is the HTML
version but you can also get it in TXT.
You could also take a look at
<http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2424/cyberlanguage.html>. I don't know
if it's relevant to you. There's also a nice list of conferences and
seminars. Who knows one of those could be for you :)
<http://alt.venus.co.uk/VL/AppLingBBK/VLConfs.html>
I think there's a wealth of information on your topic. I'm sure you'll
find something if you do a simple search on the Yahoo or Altavista.
Wishing you (and myself) good luck with the search
PS: Should you like to know more mail me.
tafn mike
--
======================================================____  ___  _ _
Mike FOX-ecki      <mlisecki[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]free.polbox.pl>  //__  // // \\//
tel. no (048)(32) 1703278 <lisecki[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hotmail.com>  //   // //  /\\
HomePage <www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1727> //   //__//  // \\
     <www.free.polbox.pl/m/mlisecki>

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 2 Apr 1997 20:14:30 -0600
From:  Ditra Henry <udhenry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: For to ....

    I've heard this construction among many African Americans in the
Chicago area and I'm wondering if this is an AAVE construction or
hypercorrection or is it just a Southern construction?

examples: May I use your phone?
      Why do you need to use the phone?
     for to call my insurance company for a question.

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:18:22 -0500
From:  "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTK.EDU>
Subject: Re: For to ....

On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Ditra Henry wrote:

>     I've heard this construction among many African Americans in the
> Chicago area and I'm wondering if this is an AAVE construction or
> hypercorrection or is it just a Southern construction?
> examples: May I use your phone?
>      Why do you need to use the phone?
>      for to call my insurance company for a question.

There's a note on the construction in one of the old t-g textbooks, maybe
Jacobs & Rosenbaum, if memory serves me as well as I think it does. Think
also of the spiritual that contains the words, "Coming for to carry me
home." I think it is an older, possibly Southern pattern.

Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  Applied Linguistics, Language & Law
Department of English      EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu
415 McClung Tower        (423) 974-6965, (423) 974-6926 (FAX)
University of Tennessee     Editor, Language in the Judicial Process
Knoxville, TN 37996-0430 USA  <http://ljp.la.utk.edu>

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:35:37 -0500
From:  Peggy Smith <dj611[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: For to ....

How old is the folk song, "Polly Wolly Doodle"? ("Oh I went down
south for to see my Sal, Singin' Polly Wolly Doodle all the day...")
the expression's been around at least that long. As far as it
belonging strictly to AAVE, I think the song has a verse about
blonde hair and blue eyes- but I could be mistaken. It's been awhile...

Peggy Smith

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:07:32 -0600
From:  Ditra Henry <udhenry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: For to...

Yes the Swing low song I realize had that construction but the Polly wolly
doodle all day I didn't realize. However, are there any current examples
that any knows of ? I just heard this from a student yesterday who was
born and raised in Chicago's inner city.

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 1 Apr 1997 to 2 Apr 1997
**********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 2 Apr 1997 to 3 Apr 1997

There are 14 messages totalling 392 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Melting Pot (2)
 2. "Color Line" (part one--1874/75 NY Herald)
 3. for to
 4. Old News?
 5. "for to"
 6. Comput-TV
 7. <No subject given>
 8. For-To again
 9. linguist Ebonics archive (2)
 10. For to...
 11. for-to (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 02:19:30 -0500
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Melting Pot

   There was a huge lineup outside of where I worked at Chambers Street in
Manhattan the other week. The marriage bureau was next door; I joked to
colleagues that I got on the wrong lunch line and got married by mistake. "I
just ordered rice, and look what happened!"
   Which brings us to "melting pot."
   The Miner/Rawson American Heritage Dictionary of American Quotations
has, on pg. 21, quote 3, the familiar passage from Israel Zangwill's THE
MELTING POT:

   America is God's crucible, the great melting pot, where all the races of
Europe are melting and re-forming...Germans and Frenchmen, Irishmen and
Englishmen, Jews and Russians--into the crucible with you all! God is making
the American!

   Zangwill did not invent this. See the cartoon in Puck, Vol. XXV, no.
693, 3 July 1889 (I forgot the page). The caption is:

THE MORTAR OF ASSIMILATION--AND THE ONE ELEMENT THAT WON'T MIX.

   The mortar bears the word "CITIZENSHIP." An anarchist leaps out with a
bloody knife. Miss America/Miss Liberty is stirring the mortar with a spoon
that reads "EQUAL RIGHTS."
   The Mortar of Assimilation pre-dates The Melting Pot by about twenty
years.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
"For To" in "Oh, Susanna!"

I come from Alabama with a banjo on my knee
And I'm goin' to Louisiana, my true love for to see
Oh, Susanna!
Now don't you cry for me....

  O. K. I'll cry for Madonna.

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 03:30:47 -0500
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: "Color Line" (part one--1874/75 NY Herald)

   The celebrations have begun for the 50th anniversary of Jackie
Robinson's breaking of baseball's "color line."
   Unfortunately, no one exactly knows what "color line" means!
   JUBA TO JIVE by Clarence Major and BLACK TALK by Geneva Smitherman both
have "color scale," but no "color line."  Huh? What?? No "color line"??
   The Miner/Rawson American Heritage Dictionary of American Quotations has
these on 419:6 and 421:2:

In all the relations of life and death, we are met by the color line.
   ---FREDERICK DOUGLASS, speech, Convention of Colored Men,
    Louisville, Ky., Sept. 24, 1883

The problem of the twentieth century is the problem of the color line.
   --W. E. B. DU BOIS, _To The Nations of the World_,
    speech, Pan-African conference, London, 1900

   OED has:
COLOUR-LINE
(a) on seals or engravings, fine parallel lines indicating colour or tincture
(b) esp. in U.S., the line of demarcation between the coloured and the white
race.
1878 _N. Amer. Rev._ CXXVII 491 We shall soon cease to hear of a *color-line.

   That's the only citation!
   Stuart Berg Flexner's I Hear America Talking has this on page 54:

_Color line_, 1875, the social distinction between Blacks and Whites, a
Reconstruction term; _to draw the color line_, 1875; _to cross the color
line_, 1880s.

   The following are from the New York Herald. (The other stuff I have are
too much for this posting, and may follow later.)

11 September 1874, NY Herald, pg. 4, cols. 4-5.
RELATIONS OF THE RACES./The Attempt to Get Rid of Negro Voters by Exile./
"THE COLOR LINE."/Tactics of the Whites to Intimidate the Blacks./CAUSES OF
THE MASSACRES./Prejudice and Ignorance of the Southern Young Men./ATTITUDE OF
THE FREEDMEN.

(...)  FIGHTING ON THE COLOR LINE.
   It is a peculiarity of the democracy of this section that they claim to
be fighting their political battles "on the color line." The phrase is
peculiar, but it is full of meaning, or like most phrases of the kind it
betrays a purpose, An eminent Tennessee politician, who is not a radical,
told me that he objects to acting with the democratic party because it is
organized on the color line. Mr. Hewitt, the democratic candidate for
Congress from this district, was nominated because he stands squarely on the
color line. The phrase is often heard in the mouths of politicians, and it
appears as a "catchword" in the newspapers. Its significance is not to be
overlooked, especially at a time like this, when there is talk of a war of
races in the South. Like the famous cross-bones and skull, it is a warning
to those whom it most concerns and it is likely to prove most damaging by
whom it was invented. But its full meaning is not conveyed to the mind by
the words themselves. Anybody can see that it implies the organization of
political parties on the basis of color, but it means more than this; its
full significance is that the whites are to be forced on the one side and
that even the negroes are to vote the other way at their peril.

5 June 1875, NY Herald. pg. 5, cols. 1-3.
MISSISSIPPI./Political Factions in the State./FOLLY OF THE
DEMOCRATS./Extremists and Corruptionists on Both Sides., by Charles Nordhoff.

(...)   THE COLOR LINE.
   It is a complaint, also, of the democrats, that thei opponents have, for
corrupt purposes, maintained the color line in position. It is true that the
Ames men cultivate the negro vote by base means; but it is also true that the
democrats help them.

10 June 1875, NY Herald, pg. 4, cols. 4-5.
MISSISSIPPI./The Partisan Bitterness Shown by Both Parties./The Negro as a
Voter and a Citizen./ELECTION FRAUDS AND INTIMIDATION./Peace and Good
Governemtn Necessary to Posperity., by Charles Nordhoff.

(...)After the election a private circular was sent around to leading
democratic business men, of which also I send you an original:--
   (For Private Use.)
   "Stand to your colors."
   "Hew to the line."
(...)  OBJECT OF THE "WHITE LINERS."
   The main object of the "White Liners" is to demoralize the negro vote by
depriving it, so far as possible, of white organizers.

19 June 1875, NY Herald, pg. 4, cols. 5-6.
MISGOVERNMENT./The New Order of Things Accepted in the South./THE COLOR LINE
DANGEROUS/Maintained by Continual Federal Interference., by Charles Nordhoff.

(...)  THE COLOR LINE A CALAMITY
  5. The division of political parties on the race or color line has been a
great calamity to the Southern States. It had its origin in the refusal of
the Southern whites, after the war, to recognize the equal political rights
of the blacks and their attempts, in state Legislatures, to pass laws hostile
to them. This folly has been bitterly regretted by the wiser men in the
South. A mississippian said to me,"It was a great blunder. We could have
better afforded to educate and train the colored people and fit them for the
duties of citizenship than to have them alienated from us."

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:51:01 -0500
From:  Peggy Smith <dj611[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Melting Pot

Barry,

    The Melting Pot Theory dates to 1782 and the essay, "Letters from
an American Farmer" by Michel-Guillaume Jean de Crevecoeur. In it, he
says, "Here individuals of all nations are melted into a new race of men,
whose labors and posterity will one day gause great changes in the
world..."

Peggy Smith

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:43:19 +0000
From:  "E.W. Gilman" <egilman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WEBSTER.M-W.COM>
Subject: for to

I guess the point of an email list is to never have to look in books.
 For to_ is in W3, and for historical background see DARE II_ for_ prep.
B1b (from 1795) and OED prep. 11 (includes George Washington and
Abigail Adams.

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 10:12:23 -0500
From:  Wayne Glowka <wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject: Old News?

The associate vice president for things like retention and academic support
programs has mailed me an advertisement for the following book:

Parker, Henry H.(Ph.D.; University of Tennessee, Martin; "a 25-year veteran
teacher of Ebonics from the pre-school level to his present classes at his
university") Ebonics: Teaching Minorities to Play the Corporate Language
Game. [1997?] Columbia: National Resource Center for The Freshman Year
Experience and Students in Transition, University of South Carolina. $15
plus shipping charges.

Phone: 803-777-6029
Fax: 803-777-4699
E-mail: ninal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]rcce.sc.edu


Wayne Glowka

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:37:38 -0500
From:  Mark Mandel <Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM>
Subject: "for to"

I recall a song I learned from a Weavers record in the fifties, sounding like
white US folk-song tradition of (at a guess) not earlier than 1850 at
earliest, and maybe any time since then. Every verse ended with "I come
for to sing", which was also the title. One verse ran:

    Some folks enjoy me, others do not.
    Some love to EX-tol on what I ain't got.
    Me, I don't mind, it don't mean a thing.
    But as for me, I come for to sing.

Of course, songs in this tradition constantly borrow from each other, so
the construction might have been archaic in the *speech* of the author.

    Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com
  Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200
 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/
      Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:53:29 -0500
From:  Wayne Glowka <wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject: Comput-TV

Would anyone who has seen WAX care to hazard a guess at what "compu-TV"
might actually mean in the following quotation? Does it refer to the kinds
of visual effects that make Toy Story a daily hit at my house?

1995 Sep/Oct Bloomsbury Review 14/1 Taking many forms, the Avant-Pop
surfaces in everything from William Gibson's cyberpunk novel Neuromancer
(Ace, 1984), which merges unusual techniques (surreal images, info-dense
sentences, the introduction of astounding vocabularies) with conventional
genre science fiction conceits, to David Blair's cult film WAX, or The
Discovery of Television Among the Bees (1991), a disruptive seriocomic
narrative short with a compu-TV vision about cross-sexual reincarnation and
the Gulf War told by Mesopotamian bees (which turn out to be the souls of
the dead).




Wayne Glowka
Professor of English
Director of Research and Graduate Student Services
Coordinator of Graduate Studies in English
Georgia College & State University
Milledgeville, GA 31061
912-453-4222
FAX: 912-453-5961
Office: Arts & Sciences 3-04
wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:55:12 EST
From:  Michael Montgomery <N270053[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VM.SC.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

The "for to" infinitive is recessive in Appalachian English but not obso-
lete. In my _Dictionary of Smoky Mountain English_ there are 8-10 cita-
tions, as I recall, including some from the 1970s. In the British Isles
the construction is well known in Ulster, and I suspect a glance at the
_English Dialect Dictionary_ would indicate a fairly widespread distribu-
tion in England. There is no strong reason, in other words, for calling
it an AAVE construction.

Michael Montogmery
Department of English
University of South Carolina
Columbia SC 29208

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:08:28 -0500
From:  "Peter L. Patrick" <PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU>
Subject: For-To again

I'm not sure what the original interest in these was-- location of
"for to" constructions regionally or ethnically, I suppose, for which
E. W. Gilman is certainly right to point us to DARE and other
published sources. But as I hazily recall my syntax courses of a
decade ago, the non-acceptability of "for to" (or "for __ to", as they
would have it) constructions in standard English was important
evidence motivating the distinction between S and S' complement
clauses, and restrictions on the occurrence of "big PRO". (This was in
the days of Chomsky and Lasnik '77 and filter theory, and I have no
idea what the current view is.)
    So far as I know, though Chomskyan syntax recognized that
"for to" occurred in non-standard dialects, the consequences of these
dialects for the organization of grammar were not explored. More to
the point of this list, I don't know of a source for exploring the
regional distribution of such syntactic constructions in a systematic
way-- a syntactic atlas of English dialects. Those with dictionary
entries can be traced through dictionaries, but what does one do with
more abstract items? Any suggestions? Sure there are a few articles
here and there, and Trudgill edited a book on regional syntax a few
years ago; and I've heard of an Italian syntactic atlas, I believe;
but what about our own much-examined language? Has the opposition
between traditional dialectology and generative syntax prevented the
emergence of such reference works?
    --plp

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:18:52 EST
From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Subject: linguist Ebonics archive

Is there an archive / collection of the posting on Ebonics at the
Linguist site? Is anyone on now who knows how to get there?

send to "listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tamvm1.tamu.edu"
yes?
what's the message line?

If you know of a good site elsewhere, would you give me the
address? A couple of my students thank you.

beth simon

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:24:57 -0500
From:  "Jeutonne P. Brewer" <jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU>
Subject: Re: For to...

How about
I'm going to London for to see the queen?

**********************************************
Jeutonne P. Brewer, Associate Professor
Department of English
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27412
email: jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu
URL:  http://www.uncg.edu/~jpbrewer
***********************************************

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:05:25 -0600
From:  wachal robert s <rwachal[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: for-to

The "for--to" construction was standard Englsih at one time, probably inn
the early Modern period.

Bob Wachal

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 3 Apr 1997 17:27:01 -0500
From:  Brenda Lester <brenles[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CODY.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject: for-to

There is the folk song: "I'm goin' to Louisiana for to see my Susianna,
singin' polly-woodle doodle all the day."

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:57:22 +0900
From:  Daniel Long <dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]X.AGE.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: linguist Ebonics archive

Linganth Listserv Home Page at:
http://www.beta-tech.com/linganth/
has page of "Ebonics in the Oakland School District" at:
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jmw22/ebind.html

simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU wrote:
> Is there an archive / collection of the posting on Ebonics at the
> Linguist site? Is anyone on now who knows how to get there?
>
> send to "listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tamvm1.tamu.edu"
> yes?
> what's the message line?
>
> If you know of a good site elsewhere, would you give me the
> address? A couple of my students thank you.
>
> beth simon

--
(Dr.) Daniel Long, Associate Professor
Japanese Language Research Center
Osaka Shoin Women's College
4-2-26 Hishiyanishi
Higashi-Osaka-shi, Osaka Japan 577
tel and fax +81-6-729-1831
email dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]joho.osaka-shoin.ac.jp
http://www.age.or.jp/x/oswcjlrc/index-e.htm

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 2 Apr 1997 to 3 Apr 1997
**********************************************


Subject: ADS-L Digest - 3 Apr 1997 to 4 Apr 1997

There are 5 messages totalling 144 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. For A. Rosa: dialect poem
 2. Fred Cassidy
 3. for-to (2)
 4. Rule of Thumb

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:00:30 EST
From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
Subject: For A. Rosa: dialect poem

THis isn't the poem I mentioned. That's coming. But here's
another which I love and might be suitable for you.

AN ORAL HISTORY OF
THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
Max Garland _The Postal Confessions_ University of Massachusetts Press:
1995)

Sometimes I wake up with my hillbilly voice.
I don't know why. Maybe a dream took me back.
The catalpas wilting in the heat.
The dust-devils walking the dry field.
Maybe the river was trying to shine
through the silt and accumulated years.
But when my head cleared and sleep ended,
there was only the twang of home left over,
like stubble in a milo field.

Sometimes I wake with the voice of my mother,
every syllable stretched like sorghum
or cold honey. The vowels washing over
the consonants without mercy. Every word
elongated, drenched in deliberation.
The name of my sister for instance, *Pam,*
becomes *Pay-yum;* takes two syllables,
one to release the word, the other
to call her back again.

Or sometimes I wake with my schooled tongue.
The tongue that moved away. All the *i's* and *y's*
precisely spoken, buttoned in their uniforms,
the cap brims set at the proper angles
of ambition. A voice clipped
and regulated, rising and falling
like the boots of a mercenary, drawn
deeper and deeper into the provinces,
hunting the stragglers of childhood down.

********

(the asterisks are meant to represent italics)
Max is from Kentucky. This collection, _The Postal Confessions_,
won the Juniper Prize from U of Mass Press.

beth simon
assistant professor, linguistics and english
indiana university purdue university
simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu

(this was fair use, right?)

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:55:30 -0600
From:  Joan Houston Hall <jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fred Cassidy

Fred Cassidy was back at the DARE office yesterday after more than four
months in captivity! He gets around well with a walker. My guess is
that, before very long, he will fling it away. He appreciates all the cards
and letters he received, and looks forward to seeing all of you who can come
to the meeting of the Dictionary Society in North America in Madison in May.

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:13:14 -0500
From:  Ron Butters <RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: for-to

>The "for--to" construction was
>standard Englsih at one time, probably
>inn [sic] the early Modern period.
>Bob Wachal

Yeah, check the King James Bible

PS to Bob: too much room in the "in"

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:16:27 -0500
From:  Beverly Flanigan <FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: for-to

  Like Bethany, I remember the for-to infinitive analysis from Jacobs and
  Rosenbaum: the Equi-NP drops out of the S', and then the 'for'
  complementizer is deleted--in modern _standard_ English, but not
  necessarily in "nonstandard" dialects or in creoles. I recall, more
  vaguely, Bickerton's analysis of the fi/tu complementizer in Guyanese
  Creole, and I'm aware that 'for' is kept and 'to' is deleted in (many?)
  English creoles. An interesting sidenote: When I was in high school a
  new student moved up to Minnesota from South Carolina (I believe), and
  I was struck by her use of 'for,' as in "I want for go," "He likes for
  play." She was a white German-surnamed farm girl, and I wondered (but
  never asked) where she got that construction--maybe from Black or
  Gullah-speaking friends? Or is the form used by others in the South?
  Perhaps that experience was the genesis of my interest in linguistics!

  Peter Patrick asked about mapping syntactic variation in dialects. A
  few of us are indeed beginning to do that, believing that lexical and
  phonological mappings are not enough. My students and I are working on
  Ohio, and others on this list are doing other areas. I suspect we're
  all willing to share!
                      Beverly Flanigan

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:48:38 -0600
From:  jack haines <z932275[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RICE.FARM.NIU.EDU>
Subject: Rule of Thumb

Does anybody know where the expression "Rule of Thumb" comes from? I was
talking with a Math Professor who was telling me about an article he had
just read. The author of the article stated that Rule of Thumb is a
sexist/insensitive phrase because it refers to an old law that said it is
alright to beat your wife, so long as the diameter of the rod used is no
greater than that of your thumb. I have heard that etymology (is this
etymology or is it etiology?) before, but I've never really investigated it.

The guy suspects "folk etymology" (eti/ym-whatever) to be afoot. I can't
say that I disagree with him. I dont want to cast aspersions but it seems
unlikely that a person who would beat another person would take the time to
measure the diameter of their weapon. Ya' know, just to make sure that
everything was fair and square. I understand the flip side of the issue--
it gives the courts something to measure against but as a law it seems kind
of subjective or open to a lot of variation.

Let us suppose that the wife-beating etymology is true. What do we, as
speakers of a language, do with phrases or colloquialisms that might have
dark pasts? Do we kick them out of the language and change the locks? Do we
kick out every one of them, or just the ones that offend my sensibilities?

Any suggestions or comments?

Jack Haines
Northern Illinois University
Graduate Student

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 3 Apr 1997 to 4 Apr 1997
**********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 5 Apr 1997 to 6 Apr 1997

There are 3 messages totalling 256 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. SLANG FOR A SATURDAY: Hale-Bopponics 101
 2. Rule of Thumb
 3. "Color Line" (part three--1874-75 Jackson, MS newspaper)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:21:15 -0500
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: SLANG FOR A SATURDAY: Hale-Bopponics 101

   This is from the Sunday, April 6th New York Post, page 39.
   What? How could I have tomorrow's New York Post on "Slang for a
Saturday"?
   Well, I was setting my clock ahead, and then I was walking over the
international date line....

   HALE-BOPPONICS 101:
   Out of the blue and into the Reel Time dictionary
   By Lucinda Rosenfeld

LEVEL ABOVE HUMAN adj. phrase; awesome; stupendous; beyond wordly
expectations. Example: new Cheech and Chong movie wasn't just great, it was
a level above human." See also Next Level.

BORROWED HUMAN CONTAINER n. phrase; the human body or form. Example: "Cindy
Crawford has one of the best borrowed human containers around."

DISCONNECT v.; to leave one physical or mental state for another. Example:
"At what time are you disconnecting from work for the Hamptons?"

LUCIFERIAN n.; a jerk, especially one that seeks control over others'
destinies. Example: "My boyfriend is being a total Luciferian about the
house share; he won't even let my sister come out!"

EARTHLY TASK n. phrase; a job or professional capacity. Example: "My boss is
such a witch I'm thinking of looking for a new earthly task."

E.T.P.I. n. phrase; short for an "extra terrestrial presently incarnate."
 Someone who seems mentally tuned out; a space cadet. Example: "I'm such an
E.T.P.I. I left my keys in the car for the second day in a row!"

THE TWO n. phrase; a couple who buttresses one another's anti-social
behavior; two friends who bring out the worst in each other. Example: "Jeff
and Jennifer are like The Two when it comes to heroin."

BO AND PEEP n. phrase; any romantic coupling which shows signs of being
short-lived. Example: "As far as I can tell, Jim and Sally are just a Bo and
Peep. I don't even think they like each other." See Do and Ti.

OLDER MEMBER n. phrase; someone who passes judgment. Example: "I wasn't
looking for an Older Member, thank you. I just want a sympathetic ear!"

EAT THE APPLE SAUCE v. phrase; to take one's own life. Example: "Danny was
manic-depressive, but he knew that he could never go so far as eating the
applesauce."

KINGDOM OF GOD n. phrase; home; any place one is in the habit of returning
to. Example: "You know how Mom is. She'll flip if I don't spend the holiday
at the Kingdom of God!"

PUT ON THE BLACK SNEAKERS n. phrase; to prepare for a long rest. Example:
"I'm thinking of going home and putting on the black sneakers; I hardly slept
last night."

HIDE BEHIND THE COMET n. phrase; to deceive one's self. Example: "Al was
really hiding behind the comet when it came to his wife's infidelity."

  Two entries say "See also Next Level" (LEVEL ABOVE HUMAN) and "See Do and
Ti" (BO AND PEEP).
   Hey, NY Post! WHERE ARE THEY??

------------------------------

Date:  Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:08:55 -0400
From:  Alan Baragona <baragonasa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX.VMI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb

I've never believed this etymology, and I think your objections are sound.
The other source I've heard most often is sewing: you can estimate a yard by
stretching cloth over your extended arm and measuring from thumb to
shoulder. I don't know if this is any more convincing, but it is certainly
a more likely explanation than the thickness of a rod.

As for your final question, I think unless there is something in the surface
form of a word or phrase that still suggests a "dark" etymology, the usage
has no psychological significance for the users and is harmless. If,
however, its current associations are disturbing or potentially offensive,
I'd be personally reluctant to use it, though I don't believe in
"legislating" the language of others.

Alan B.

At 04:48 PM 4/4/97 -0600, jack haines wrote:
>Does anybody know where the expression "Rule of Thumb" comes from? I was
>talking with a Math Professor who was telling me about an article he had
>just read. The author of the article stated that Rule of Thumb is a
>sexist/insensitive phrase because it refers to an old law that said it is
>alright to beat your wife, so long as the diameter of the rod used is no
>greater than that of your thumb. I have heard that etymology (is this
>etymology or is it etiology?) before, but I've never really investigated it.
>
>The guy suspects "folk etymology" (eti/ym-whatever) to be afoot. I can't
>say that I disagree with him. I dont want to cast aspersions but it seems
>unlikely that a person who would beat another person would take the time to
>measure the diameter of their weapon. Ya' know, just to make sure that
>everything was fair and square. I understand the flip side of the issue--
>it gives the courts something to measure against but as a law it seems kind
>of subjective or open to a lot of variation.
>
>Let us suppose that the wife-beating etymology is true. What do we, as
>speakers of a language, do with phrases or colloquialisms that might have
>dark pasts? Do we kick them out of the language and change the locks? Do we
>kick out every one of them, or just the ones that offend my sensibilities?
>
>Any suggestions or comments?
>
>Jack Haines
>Northern Illinois University
>Graduate Student
>
Alan Baragona
alan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vmi.edu

You know, years ago, my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
world, Elwood, you must be . . ."--she always called me 'Elwood'--"In this
world, Elwood, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so pleasant." Well, for
years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. And you may quote me.

                Elwood P. Dowd

------------------------------

Date:  Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:11:34 -0400
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: "Color Line" (part three--1874-75 Jackson, MS newspaper)

   It'll be at least another week before I can check the New Orleans
Picayune, Richmond Courier, and Atlanta Constitution in the Columbia
University library.
   The Library of Congress had The Weekly Clarion of Jackson, Mississippi
from the middle of 1874, and "color line" is all over the place. It's
certainly the "soccer mom" WOTY of 1874-75, and Allan Metcalf and David
Barnhart should include it in their upcoming book.
   "Mr. Nordhoff's Letters" to the New York Herald were mentioned by The
Weekly Clarion on 30 June 1875, pg. 2, col. 3 and reprinted that day and
other days; this was the subject of the previously posted "Color Line--part
one."
   The following are all from the WEEKLY CLARION of Jackson, Mississippi.

13 August 1874, pg. 2, col. 2, "What the Vicksburg Election Teaches."
   (...) The election has taught these same arrogant leaders the old
lesson, that "pride goes before a fall." Protesting heretofore against the
"color line," it was plainly to be seen by the complexion of their ticket
that they had themselves drawn it in their own party. (...)
   A "White Line" paper is needed very much in Jackson, and some
enterprising man of brains and experience in the profession, could do well by
investing there. (...)
   Apropos ofthe "color line" as a political slogan, the Vicksburger is
mistaken in intimating that we have ever advocated it. We had supposed our
past course for which we have been no litle censured, had always proved the
reverse. We have deprecated it from the very beginning of Reconstruction, as
our readers well know....

27 August 1874, pg. 1, col. 6.
   The Color Line.
>From the Central Star.
   (...) As grave as are the evils that afflict the body politic we feel
assured that they will be aggravated rather than diminished by the
organization of parties "on the color line."

27 August 1874, pg. 2, col. 2.
   The Question of the "Color Line."
   (...) A white man's league to deprive the colored man of the enjoyment
of the privileges ofthe government is as repgnant to this fundamental
doctrine of popular government, as the Native American league which was
formed some years ago to proscribe foreigners and Catholics. One is the
"color line"--the other was the "Native American line."

3 September 1874, pg. 3, col. 2.
   THE COLOR LINE.
   A Strong Protest Against It.
>From the Coplahan.
   MESSRS. EDITORS: The most of the COnservative papers, including yours,
which fall under my eyes, are now advocating the formation of White Leagues
and the adoption of the "Color Line." (...)

10 September 1874, pg. 2, col. 6.
   Words in Season.
>From the Holly Springs Reporter.
   In the excited State of the public mind caused by the unexpected
presentation of the "Color Line" question for discussion, we earnestly urge
all people to exercise prudence, good judgment, and a conservative course.
(...)

10 September 1874, pg. 2, col. 6.
   Card from Ex-Gov. Brown.
   EDITORS OF THE CLARION.--In a brief paragraph in your last week's issue,
you credit me with having caused the abandonment of a purpose to establish a
"Color Line League" in this neighborhood. You do me honors over much. I do
not think there has ever been a disposition among my neighbors to establish
such a "line." We are getting along very well, and all we ask of the outside
world is to let us alone. (...) I have been outspoken from the beginning
against the "White League," otherwise called the "color line." (...) A. G.
Brown.

10 September 1874, pg. 2, col. 2.
   The New Departure.
   (...) The Color Line, as do all conflicts of race, stirs the passions of
the human heart to its profoundest depths.

19 November 1874, pg. 2, col. 2.
   "The Color Line."
   (argument with the Pascagoula Star--ed.)

28 January 1875, pg. 2, col. 3.
   Drawing the Color Line.
   Professing to depreciate the color line, Gov. Ames has done all that his
ingenuity is capable of originating to create it. (...)

18 February 1875, pg. 2, col. 8.
   THE COLOR LINE.
   (...) We can state to the (Summit) Times that we have labored too
earnestly to prevent the division of parties in this State on the "color
line," .....

25 February 1875, pg. 1, col. 8.
   Forcing the Color Line.
>From the N. O. Picayune.
   The Radicals in charge of our public schools seem determined upon
pushing the matter of color, when they know full well that even in the civil
rights bill which is now before Congress the clause about the schools have
been eliminated. (...)

26 May 1875, pg. 2., col. 2.
   The Color Line.
   (...) We are opposed to the color line as an original proposition.
(...)

1 September 1875, pg. 2, col. 3.
   The Color Line.
   ...not because he is qualified or will be of the least service to that
District or to any human being in it--but because he is a colored man. This
is what did it, and the white Radicals are now seeingand confessing who it is
that are drawing the color line.

8 September 1875, pg. 2, col. 7.
   The Times and the Black Line.

29 March 1876, pg. 1., col. 3.
   White Line Outrages.


SUMMARY: "Color line" is all over the place. It's in numerous headlines
from 1874-1876. The pathetic OED citation of 1878 completely ignores U.S.
history--such as the Civil War, Reconstruction, and the civil rights
amendments to the Constitution. The Dictionary of Americanisms, with only
one citation in 1875 before a jump to 1878, is little better.  These brief
postings will hopefully result in an accurate treatment of "color line" and
its importance in American history.

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 5 Apr 1997 to 6 Apr 1997
**********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 6 Apr 1997 to 7 Apr 1997

Content-Length: 14957

There are 14 messages totalling 422 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Color "Bar"/Color "Barrier"/Color "Line"
 2. tipping (3)
 3. Rule of Thumb
 4. Re[2]: Rule of Thumb
 5. Not exactly double modals (2)
 6. cracker and white trash
 7. used to could (3)
 8. cracker and white trash -Reply
 9. <No subject given>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:00:27 -0400
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Color "Bar"/Color "Barrier"/Color "Line"

  Imagine "crossing the color line," and then finding out fifty years later
that you "broke the color barrier."
  BREAKING THE SOUND BARRIER is a 1952 film from the late, great David
Lean. "Breaking barriers" took off in the 1950s, although it has not
completely replaced "color line."
  A check of Eureka's Newspaper Abstracts shows 8 "color bar," 36 "color
barrier," and 61 "color line" headlines.
  A "color bar" might be "hurdled."
  A "color barrier" was usually "broken."
  A "color line" was often "crossed." Like the sound barrier, the color
line was often "broken" was well--probably by running faster than you can say
"Jack Robinson."

COLOR BAR (8)
hurdle--1
belies--1
add up to end of--1
falls--1
in--2
break--2

COLOR BARRIER (36)
break--19
erects--1
face--1
erased--1
recedes--1
in news--1
eliminate--1
no--1
cross--1
imprisoned--1
memories from--1
wage battles against--1
breaches--1
broadens--1
seeing beyond--1
sliding past--1
comes tumbling down--1
strides past--1

COLOR LINE (61, occurring 67 times)
break--11
color line (no other words--ed.)--9
across--4
cross--4
along--1
balancing on--1
dancing over--1
over--1
draws--1
statement on--1
campaign on--1
life on--1
on--1
truth on--1
maintain--1
target--1
politics and--1
lives uneasily astride--1
problem of--1
disciple of color and line--1
divided on--1
fights on against--1
want no--1
envision no--1
contest spans--1
meets--1
focus on--
the world's--1
hair color line--1
fears of--1
other side of--1
new--1
remarks on--1
runs afoul of--1
extend to--1
look at--1

   Check Newspaper Abstracts again in about a month.

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:43:42 -0600
From:  Greg Pulliam <gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.IIT.EDU>
Subject: tipping

There was a syndicated story from the Houston Chronicle in Sunday's Chicago
Tribune or Sun-Times (I can find out for sure if anyone really needs to
know) in which the writer noted that the term "tip" as in "tipping a
waiter" came from an English inn several hundred years ago, where the
innkeeper put out a box for money labelled "To Insure Promptness"--"T.I.P."
The reporter simply gave this as the accepted etymology of the term, but it
sounds mighty fishy to me. I don't have easy access to a decent
etymological dictionary for a couple of days, so if anyone knows anything
about this, I'd appreciate a short note on it.
Thanks.

Gregory J. Pulliam
Illinois Institute of Technology
Lewis Department of Humanities
Chicago, IL  60616
gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.cns.iit.edu

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:02:01 -0400
From:  Jesse T Sheidlower <jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb

_Rule of thumb_ is a fascinating phrase, because the
ridiculous-sounding folk-etymology (sc. that it's based
on an old English law that a man was allowed to beat
his wife as long as the stick he used was thinner than
his thumb) has some basis in fact.

First, the phrase _rule of thumb_ is not from this alleged law.
However, reference to this practice is found in several
places in English and American court cases from the late
eighteenth century onwards. It does not seem to have been
an actual law, but was seriously belived by some people to
be so.

The folk-etymology based on this practice apparently stems
from a mid-1970s NOW report that mentions the _practice_
and calls it, apparently jocularly, a "rule of thumb." It
did not say that that was the origin of the phrase, but it
seems to have been misinterpreted that way.

There's a short summary of this question at
http://www.randomhouse.com/jesse/961108.html ,
and a long discussion, with citations from the relevant cases,
at
http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/rule_of_thumb.html

Jesse Sheidlower
<jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com>

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:22:53 CST
From:  Ellen Johnson <Ellen.Johnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WKU.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Rule of Thumb

   The article the math prof read was not really concerned with
   etymology, but with parodying "political correctness" and trivializing
   real problems of sexism. IMNSHO

   ellen

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:15:11 -0700
From:  Peter McGraw <pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: tipping

My AHD (the best dictionary I have handy at the moment) says "Originally a
slang word meaning 'to give,' 'to pass to,' from TIP (to tap)." However,
I wonder about this. I've always heard it was derived from tipple, 'to
drink alcoholic beverages,' which is supported by the fact that the word
means to buy the recipient a drink in other European languages: German
Trinkgeld, 'drink money', French pourboire, '[money] for drinking', Czech
zpropitne [acute accent over the e], 'for a drink'.

Peter McGraw
Linfield College
McMinnville, OR

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Greg Pulliam wrote:

> There was a syndicated story from the Houston Chronicle in Sunday's Chicago
> Tribune or Sun-Times (I can find out for sure if anyone really needs to
> know) in which the writer noted that the term "tip" as in "tipping a
> waiter" came from an English inn several hundred years ago, where the
> innkeeper put out a box for money labelled "To Insure Promptness"--"T.I.P."
> The reporter simply gave this as the accepted etymology of the term, but it
> sounds mighty fishy to me. I don't have easy access to a decent
> etymological dictionary for a couple of days, so if anyone knows anything
> about this, I'd appreciate a short note on it.
> Thanks.
>
> Gregory J. Pulliam
> Illinois Institute of Technology
> Lewis Department of Humanities
> Chicago, IL  60616
> gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.cns.iit.edu
>

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:19:52 EDT
From:  Larry Horn <LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU>
Subject: Re: tipping

The sources I've checked don't provide any direct support for a derivation from
'tipple'. The relevant noun and verb 'tip' are attested in the early 1700's,
not restricted to contexts of drinking (booze), and are apparently a speciali-
zation of the broader 'touch/push' group of meanings for 'tip'. What is
quite clear is that there's about as much evidence for an acronymic source
(To Insure Promptness, or whatever) with 'tip' as there with 'fuck' (For
Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, Fornication Under Consent of the King, whatever),
viz. none (see Jesse's _The F-Word_ on the latter). For some reason, these
initialistic/acronymic folk-etymologies retain an appeal entirely unwarranted
in any fact, leaving aside attested cases like 'ikhthys' for Jesus, Hebrew
surnames like 'Katz' and 'Raschi', and a few other oldies.

Larry

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:26:38 -0700
From:  Peter McGraw <pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Not exactly double modals

I have no wish to become "Mr. Double Modals," but I kept thinking about
this related usage....

My great aunt always said "used to could." While this isn't a double
modal, it's really the same phenomenon: use of a finite form of the modal
where an infinitive would be used if one were available.

I don't think I ever knew anyone besides my great aunt who actually used
this construction, though I've heard OF it elsewhere, probably as an
element of caricatures of country speech. (The only actual example I
remember is an article by James Thurber denouncing the language of
advertising, saying he expected any day now to see a slogan, "We still
brew good like we used to could.")

My great aunt was not from the South, but her husband was from Tennessee.
He died too long ago for me to remember whether he used the construction
or not.

So my question to you double-modal using Southerners out there: Do you
also use "used to could"?

I've just learned that Scots uses modals this way. Viz. the following
message (prompted by my query about a message the writer had sent to
another list):

>Peter -

>"Ye'll can" in Scots = "You will be able to" in English. Ither
>constructions the same are "I'll no can", "he widnae cuid hae duin whit
>ye say", and sae on.

>Aa the best,

>John Law


Peter McGraw
Linfield College
McMinnville, OR

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:12:45 -0600
From:  Miriam Meyers <MMEYERS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUS1.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: cracker and white trash

I've been off the net for a few weeks and have just now read the strand
on cracker and white trash. I agree with Michael Montgomery about use
of cracker among Floridians and Georgians. Almost all my relatives live
in one of the two states. My father (b. 1903) lived his childhood in
Florida and went back in midlife. He always referred to Floridians as
crackers. My cousin's husband, a native of extreme South Georgia
(b. ca.1920) who moved to Florida to work after law school, refers to
himself proudly as cracker. I don't view the term as pejorative.
(And, yes, I attended Atlanta Crackers games as a child.)
But white trash is right down there with nigger; they are two words that
I cringe when I hear. It's based on experience of seeing the wretchedness
of some people who are called that and of sensing how it must feel to be
regarded as trash. This isn't linguistics, maybe, but it's part of my
code: I object to calling any human being trash.
Respectfully, Miriam Meyers, Metropolitan State University, Mpls/St.Paul

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:20:46 -0600
From:  Gregory Pulliam <gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: used to could

I used to could use this form when I lived in the South (Mississippi,
Tennessee, Texas, Georgia, and even in Li'l Dixie in Missouri). I can't
use it 'free and easy' in Chicago, although there are some contexts on the
southside and the westside where I've heard it used, generally by AAVE
speakers.


Greg Pulliam
gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
Illinois Institute of Technology
Chicago

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:52:28 -0400
From:  "Dennis R. Preston" <preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: used to could

What can you say besides 'used to could'? Can't nobody I know say 'Used to
be able to' (less they funnin or, as Greg suggests, from the Deep North).

DInIs

>I used to could use this form when I lived in the South (Mississippi,
>Tennessee, Texas, Georgia, and even in Li'l Dixie in Missouri). I can't
>use it 'free and easy' in Chicago, although there are some contexts on the
>southside and the westside where I've heard it used, generally by AAVE
>speakers.
>
>
>Greg Pulliam
>gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
>Illinois Institute of Technology
>Chicago

Dennis R. Preston
Department of Linguistics and Languages
Michigan State University
East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu
Office: (517)432-1235
Fax: (517)432-2736

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:57:15 -0500
From:  Mark Mandel <Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM>
Subject: cracker and white trash -Reply

>>> Miriam Meyers <MMEYERS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUS1.MSUS.EDU> 0407.1712 >>>
    [...]
But white trash is right down there with nigger; they are two words that
I cringe when I hear. It's based on experience of seeing the
wretchedness of some people who are called that and of sensing how it
must feel to be regarded as trash. This isn't linguistics, maybe, but it's
part of my code: I object to calling any human being trash.
<<<

Amen!
Understanding how a word is used and what social freight it carries
absolutely IS a legitimate part of linguistics.
And appreciating that knowledge and incorporating it into one's life is part
of being a mensch.

    Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com
  Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200
 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/
      Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:06:12 -0400
From:  "Dennis R. Preston" <preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

I'm sure word-watchers out there have it, but I was struck by the use of
'angst' as a verb (with the low-front vowel). This morning on Good Morning
America, one of the anchors noted, after discussing some other trouble that
you might run into this time of year, that 'You're alreading angsting over
taxes.'

Not me; I'm just out here Lautgesetzing, myself; keeping an eye on the
Northern Cities Chain Shift.

DInIs


Dennis R. Preston
Department of Linguistics and Languages
Michigan State University
East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu
Office: (517)432-1235
Fax: (517)432-2736

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:22:02 -0400
From:  "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Not exactly double modals

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Peter McGraw wrote:

> So my question to you double-modal using Southerners out there: Do you
> also use "used to could"?

I hear it fairly routinely and probably say it occasionally. (Susan?)

Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  Applied Linguistics, Language & Law
Department of English      EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu
415 McClung Tower        (423) 974-6965, (423) 974-6926 (FAX)
University of Tennessee     Editor, Language in the Judicial Process
Knoxville, TN 37996-0430 USA  <http://ljp.la.utk.edu>

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:44:47 +0000
From:  Bill Spruiell <3lfyuji[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: used to could

In my slightly-north-of-central-Alabama dialect, not only is "used to
could" common, but a perhaps analogous construction, "might should
ought to" is also. That last one is the only "triple-decker" modal
that I can recall using naturally (as long as the "ought to" is
pronounced "awda", of course).
-------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed in this message do not necessarily represent those of Central Michigan U.

Bill Spruiell
Central Michigan University
Dept. of English Language and Literature

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 6 Apr 1997 to 7 Apr 1997
**********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 7 Apr 1997 to 8 Apr 1997

There are 12 messages totalling 286 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Tipping
 2. poor whites
 3. tipping
 4. Tipping -Reply
 5. tipping -Reply
 6. Alan Thomas
 7. Intrusive L (was Re: ADS-L Digest)
 8. used to could
 9. Not exactly double modals
 10. Etymologizing (2)
 11. Fw: Not exactly double modals

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:20:39 -0400
From:  Leslie Dunkling <106407.3560[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Tipping

The supposed acronymic origin of tip (in its gratuity sense) is an old
chestnut. It ranks with the `port out starboard home' explanation of posh.
As Larry Horn implies, fanciful nonsense is often more appealing than
etymological fact.

There is a good summary of the various developments of tip in Partridge's
_Dictionary of Historical Slang_. Although there are several coincidental
connections with tippling, one did not derive from the other.

By the way, _Tavern Anecdotes and Sayings_, by Charles Hindley, (1881)
glosses tippling as "holding communication with disembottled spirits." And
the subject of tipping recalls Groucho Marx in A Night at the Opera asking
the steward whether tipping is allowed. When told that it is he says "Have
you got two fives?" "Oh, yes, sir." "Then you won't need the ten cents I
was going to give you."

(And as for rule of thumb, wasn't the breadth of a man's thumb formerly
used as a rough and ready measure of one inch?)

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 05:18:38 CST
From:  Ellen Johnson <Ellen.Johnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WKU.EDU>
Subject: poor whites

I would recommend Dorothy Allison's novel *Bastard out of Carolina*.
It is partly autobiographical. The author also discusses her
"white trash" upbringing in *Skin: Sex, Class, and Literature*
where she discusses a variety of prejudices, including against certain
sexual practices (very explicit, consider yourself warned).

She tells how she has moved from shame, to an in-your-face type of
attitude about her background, to self-acceptance.

ellen.johnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]wku.edu

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:30:35 +0000
From:  "E.W. Gilman" <egilman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WEBSTER.M-W.COM>
Subject: tipping

It occurs to me that it is curious that no one to my knowledge has
pointed out the illogicality of the supposed acronymic source--to insure
promptness--of the word tip. How could money given after the meal or
whatever is consumed insure prompt service? If the tip were given
first, maybe, but some of the tips I have given over the years would
only insure dilatoriness.

E.W.Gilman

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 10:16:04 -0500
From:  Mark Mandel <Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM>
Subject: Tipping -Reply

>>> Leslie Dunkling <106407.3560[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM> 0408.0620 >>>
The supposed acronymic origin of tip (in its gratuity sense) is an old
chestnut. It ranks with the `port out starboard home' explanation of posh.
As Larry Horn implies,

  fanciful nonsense is often more appealing than etymological fact.

[spacing added -- MAM]
<<<<

Has anyone ever tried to explain this general phenomenon?

    Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com
  Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200
 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/
      Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:09:27 -0500
From:  Mark Mandel <Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM>
Subject: tipping -Reply

>>> E.W. Gilman <egilman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WEBSTER.M-W.COM> 0408.0430 >>>
It occurs to me that it is curious that no one to my knowledge has pointed
out the illogicality of the supposed acronymic source--to insure
promptness--of the word tip. How could money given after the meal or
whatever is consumed insure prompt service? If the tip were given first,
maybe, but some of the tips I have given over the years would only
insure dilatoriness.
<<<

This counter-argument, at least, fails my reality test. Sure, a stranger
passing through the only place in the country with such a box couldn't
benefit from it, nor the waiters (or whatever) from him. But:

a. Repeat customers stand to benefit from a reputation as good tippers
(or even more so, discriminating tippers!). Consider the farmer who
comes to market every week or every month, or the drummer (traveling
salesman) on a regular route.

b. If the custom is widespread, then even the passer-through can be
expected with some confidence to know about it, and to tip after good
service -- or, conversely, to tip in the expectation of good service. You
may read "hope" for "expect(ation)" here, since the one-time transaction
depends on trust.

Mind yez, I do not support the purportive acronymic origin! I'm just trying
to keep the counter-arguments clean.

    Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com
  Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200
 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/
      Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:47:13 -0400
From:  Ron Butters <RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Alan Thomas

Has anyone heard from Alan Thomas lately? He hasn't been answering my e-mail
messages, though he is usually very prompt. I hope he is OK.

I desperately need his mailing address; if anyone has it, will you please
send it to me?

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:00:25 -0400
From:  Beverly Flanigan <FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Intrusive L (was Re: ADS-L Digest)

  A further note on intrusive 'l': I have a graduate student from Athens
  County who not only said 'draw(l)ing' as a child but also said/says
  'grandmawl'--and wrote it that way (or 'grammal' perhaps, since
  southern Ohio has open O)* until his teacher corrected it. But he
  agreed with me that it is a dark l--at least word-finally, if not
  medially (and I'll withhold comment on that one yet). It seems to be
  the very same 'l' that is vocalized in Philadelphia and Baltimore (I
  recall not understanding my mother-in-law from Balto when she
  pronounced 'ball' and 'oil'--the latter was 'aw(l)' with no [l].

  *This sound in Southern Ohio is not really open O but is midway between
  [a] and [O], close to the British low back vowel (upside down or
  backward [a]?). The spelling of 'mamaw' and 'papaw' reflects the same
  low back /a/.
                    Beverly Flanigan

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:33:30 -0400
From:  Beverly Flanigan <FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: used to could

  Well, DInIs, we Deep Northerners do say "used to be able to"--I heard
  no other way until I moved to Ohio! (And you don't get any deeper
  North than western Minnesota and Fargo; the scenes of snows and floods
  in "Monte" and Granite Falls, MN are from my neck of the woods--I grew
  up near the Yellow Medicine River, which flows into the Minnesota,
  which flows into the Mississippi....)

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:05:36 -0600
From:  "Susan G. North" <snorth[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Not exactly double modals

Indeed, I used to could do all kinds of things that I can't do now. I asked
a friend of mine from Texas whether he used this particular construction
and he said that it sounded like something he would say but he didn't think
he ever had. I think I probably say it less often that I used to because
I'm getting to the age I don't want to admit all that I can't do. But I
think it's still a pretty common construction here in East Tennessee.

Susan North
Department of English
The University of Tennessee


>
>I hear it fairly routinely and probably say it occasionally. (Susan?)
>
>Bethany
>
>Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  Applied Linguistics, Language & Law
>Department of English      EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu
>415 McClung Tower        (423) 974-6965, (423) 974-6926 (FAX)
>University of Tennessee     Editor, Language in the Judicial Process
>Knoxville, TN 37996-0430 USA  <http://ljp.la.utk.edu>

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:44:39 -0400
From:  Leslie Dunkling <106407.3560[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Etymologizing

Mark Mandel asks whether `anyone ever tried to explain this general
phenomenon' (of preferring fanciful etymologies to factual ones).

I don't know whether Ernest Weekley is known in the States. He was
professor of French at Nottingham University when D.H.Lawrence was a
student there. Lawrence eloped with his wife, but that's another story. In
his own right, Professor Weekley was a philologist of the highest order,
compiler of an _Etymological Dictionary of Modern English_, author of
several popular books about words and names. He used to fume about letters
in newspapers which gave fanciful explanations of word-origins based on
guess-work. He could not explain the phenomenon, but he was equally puzzled
by it, and when you read what he has to say about it you can picture him
tearing his hair.

Sample quotes from a chapter in his _Words and Names_, entitled "Our
Lunatic Contributor":

"To the student there is something almost awe-inspiring in the martial
impatience with which the amateur cuts the Gordian knots of etymology..."

"The question naturally suggests itself - who invents all these futilities?
Is there some secret factory where half-wits are set to work by the
Moriarty of a gang engaged in uttering etymological fictions, or do the
writers of these letters evolve their anecdotes from their own inner
consciousness? Is it a complex, or an inhibition, or a morbid libido, or
what, in the name of Grimm's law, is it?"

It is still a popular pastime in Britain to come up with ingenious
explanations of pub names. Thus, Bag o' Nails (originally a pub frequented
by carpenters) is said to be a corruption of Bacchanalia; the Elephant and
Castle (from the elephant and howdah on the crest of the Cutler's Company)
is supposedly a reference to the Infanta de Castile.

Other names are explained in similar fashion - Cold Harbour is from French,
col d'arbres. Perhaps it was the same francophile etymologist who
discovered that Shakespeare was a corruption of Jacques-Pierre. The
interesting thing is that once these stories get into circulation it seems
to be impossible to withdraw them. As far as most people are concerned,
truth may be stranger than fiction but it still isn't as interesting.

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:33:30 -0000
From:  Dazaifu <dzfhs-02[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MXW.MESHNET.OR.JP>
Subject: Fw: Not exactly double modals

"Used to could" is common in my (New Orleans area) dialect, although I
DON'T use double modals. Of course, now that I don't live in Louisiana any
more, I have had to start saying "used to be able to" :(

Another aspect of New Orleans dialect is the following. Do any other areas
have this, too?

"been _______ing"

Ex.   'Is that a new shirt?'
    'No, I ('ve) been having this shirt.'  (with stress on the 'been')

Ex.   'I've been knowing him all my life.'  (instead of 'have known')


I'm curious about this last form because I have never met anyone outside of
Louisiana who has even heard of it before.

Thanks,

Tara Sanchez
dzfhs-02[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mxw.meshnet.or.jp

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:20:02 -0400
From:  Ron Butters <RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Etymologizing

>Mark Mandel asks whether
>`anyone ever tried to explain
>this general phenomenon' (of
>preferring fanciful etymologies
>to factual ones).

It has always seemed to me that this must be a part of the same impulse that
leads children to try to figure out meaning connections and leads to such
howlers as TAKE IT FOR GRANITE and GLADLY THE CROSS-EYED BEAR. Haven't we all
been taught that linguistic creativity is mired into our brains?

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 7 Apr 1997 to 8 Apr 1997
**********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 8 Apr 1997 to 9 Apr 1997

There are 7 messages totalling 134 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Etymologizing -Reply
 2. been knowing
 3. Alan Thomas (2)
 4. hacker's dictionary (2)
 5. URL for Hacker's Dictionary

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:08:33 -0500
From:  Mark Mandel <Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM>
Subject: Re: Etymologizing -Reply

>>> Ron Butters <RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM> 0408.2120 >>>
It has always seemed to me that this must be a part of the same impulse
that leads children to try to figure out meaning connections and leads to
such howlers as TAKE IT FOR GRANITE and GLADLY THE CROSS-EYED
BEAR. Haven't we all been taught that linguistic creativity is
    mired into our brains?
    ******
 [emphasis added -- MAM]
<<<<<

Whether thought-out or a creative slip of the fingers, Ron, that is
beautiful!

    Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com
  Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200
 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/
      Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:34:22 -0600
From:  Joan Houston Hall <jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: been knowing

Volume III of DARE has a treatment of "been knowing" at "know" verb, section
C. We've labelled it "esp Gulf States."

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:44:01 +0900
From:  Daniel Long <dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]X.AGE.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Alan Thomas

Professor Alan Thomas
School of English and Linguistics
University of Wales
Bangor, Gwynedd LL57 2DG
Great Britain

Now I want a favor. Could you remind Charles to put the AS offprints in
the mail for me, please.

Danny

Ron Butters wrote:
>
> Has anyone heard from Alan Thomas lately? He hasn't been answering my e-mail
> messages, though he is usually very prompt. I hope he is OK.
>
> I desperately need his mailing address; if anyone has it, will you please
> send it to me?

--
(Dr.) Daniel Long, Associate Professor
Japanese Language Research Center
Osaka Shoin Women's College
4-2-26 Hishiyanishi
Higashi-Osaka-shi, Osaka Japan 577
tel and fax +81-6-729-1831
email dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]joho.osaka-shoin.ac.jp
http://www.age.or.jp/x/oswcjlrc/index-e.htm

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:48:09 +0900
From:  Daniel Long <dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]X.AGE.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Alan Thomas

Woops. It seems I sent private mail to ADS-l. Sorry. I discovered the
mistake just as I pushed the "send" button, but it was too late.

danny "just glad I hadn't written anything REALLY private" long

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:10:19 -0500
From:  Gregory Pulliam <gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: hacker's dictionary

A student sent this URL to me--if it's been previously posted, forgive me.
It's called "A Hacker's Dictionary", and it's VERY interesting.

Greg Pulliam
gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
Illinois Institute of Technology
Chicago

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:39:38 -0400
From:  "Johnnie A. Renick" <Tenderrite[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: hacker's dictionary

In a message dated 97-04-09 17:03:28 EDT, gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU
(Gregory Pulliam) writes:

<<
 A student sent this URL to me--if it's been previously posted, forgive me.
 It's called "A Hacker's Dictionary", and it's VERY interesting.

 Greg Pulliam
 gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
 Illinois Institute of Technology
 Chicago

 >>
I got this message but no address. Is there one?
Thanks
Johnnie Renick
tenderrite[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:51:06 -0500
From:  Gregory Pulliam <gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: URL for Hacker's Dictionary

Yikes! Did I forget to include the URL? It's
http://www.ccil.org/jargon/jargon_toc.html
Sorry. Guess I'll go back to my comet-gazing now.
I'm starting a new "group" for comet-watchers, BTW. We're calling
ourselves "Ishtar."

Greg Pulliam
gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
Illinois Institute of Technology
Chicago

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 8 Apr 1997 to 9 Apr 1997
**********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 9 Apr 1997 to 10 Apr 1997

There are 9 messages totalling 362 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Baseball, Hot Dogs....
 2. Chicago, "the Windy City"
 3. official english
 4. poor whites (2)
 5. DSNA conference info (3)
 6. Variation in "try"-complements?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 02:24:36 -0400
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Baseball, Hot Dogs....

"Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet."
  --Chevrolet ads in the 1970s

  It's baseball season again. In less than three months it will be
July--National Hot Dog Month--and "TAD" Dorgan will once again invent the
phrase "hot dog" that he never invented.
  I don't know how to stop it. Obviously, hundreds of dollars of mailings
and letters to the editor don't work. If the National Hot Dog Council were
to say, for example--"Hot Dogs! They're great for you! Zero calories!!
 Zero cholesterol!! A terrific source of Vitamin C!!"--they'd be sued.
  But anyone can lie about the meaning of words and phrases! Rule of
thumb, tip, POSH, OK--make up whatever you want!!  You want it to mean
something good? Something bad? Do you want it to come from Africa? Asia?
 Brooklyn? Write ANYTHING you want! It's not like there are any
professionals who research this!
  Several of my important Baseball & Hot Dogs stuff hasn't yet been in
Comments on Etymology, and I DIDN'T find this in the Cooperstown Library's
"Hot Dog" file.  Gerald Cohen began the COE series with "HOT DOG" REVISITED
Feb./March 1991, then UPDATE ON "HOT DOG" Feb. 1993, then many more. He's
working on the monograph now.
  On 14 January 1941, at the Commodore Hotel in New York City (now the
Grand Hyatt at Grand Central Station), there was a baseball dinner to honor
the memory of Harry Stevens and "the Golden Jubilee of the hot dog as a
baseball comestible." This can be found in a short note in The Sporting
News, 16 January 1941, pg. 8, col. 7, "Hot Stuff for Hot Doggers."  These
other articles followed.

23 January 1941, The Sporting News, pg. 4, col. 1 (editorials):
   PUTTING ON THE DOG FOR THE HOT DOG
   At the dinner given by the baseball writers of New York to the four
Stevens brothers, leaders in major league food purveying, the Golden Jubilee
of the Hot Dog as a diamond comestible was celebrated with fitting ceremony.
(...)
   It was 50 years ago that Harry Stevens recognized the importance of the
frankfurter as a baseball "appetizer." For years the wienie labored under
the handicap of being under suspicion. It was said that when a hunk of meat
was stuffed into a jacket, it was pretty far gone.
   Stevens was having a lot of success with the frankfurter at the Polo
Grounds, when Tad--T. A. Dorgan, great sports cartoonist of the Journal, now
dead--fastened the moniker of hot dog on the article of food Harry blazed up.
(...)
(A photo and story about the dinner can be found on Pg. 8--ed.)

13 February 1941, The Sporting News, pg. 4, col. 5, "THREE AND ONE: Looking
them over with J. G. Spink."
   Feeding the Fans in Stevens Family-Style
(...) "I never will forget how dad got sore when Tad--T. A. Dorgan, sports
cartoonist of the Journal--first called the frankfurter the Hot Dog. Father
thought this moniker would give the public ideas about the contents of the
dog-skin, and kill the sales. But Tad made the hot dog a baseball fixture.
 He not only publicized it with the picturesque name, but used the dogs in
his cartoons. You may recollect how he had the frankfurters making
wisecracks to each other." (...)

   Let me check the new American Heritage Dictionary of American
Quotations, by Margaret Miner and Hugh Rawson. Hm, no "hot dog." Not at
all! For that matter, not even a single quote by TAD!
   Whew boy, that's great! He didn't get it wrong!!
   Let me just check "Big Apple." Let's see, page 99:

Harlem is the precious fruit in the Garden of Eden, the big apple.
   --ALAIN LOCKE, c. 1919.
(An early example of the "big apple" metaphor, cited in Deirdre Mullane, ed.,
_Words to Make My Children Live: A Book of African American Quotations_,
1995. Locke, who earned a B.A. and Ph.D. from Harvard University, was the
first black Rhodes Scholar, and taught philosophy at Howard University. He
edited _The New Negro_, 1925, an anthology that introduced the writers of the
Harlem Renaissance to a wide audience.)

   Debunked by me six years ago in a letter to The New York Times that was
never published.
   Excuse me, I have to eat some applesauce. I'll be right back!

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:34:42 -0400
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Chicago, "the Windy City"

"April is the cruellest month."
  --T.S. Eliot, "The Waste Land" (1922).

"Be thankful I don't take it all."
  --Beatles, "Tax Man."

   Gosh, it was only applesauce!
   As I've posted before, on February 12th Mayor Rudolph Giuliani signed
my "Big Apple Corner" bill into law. Sitting to my left to watch it was a
writer named Richard Barbieri, who will include some of my stuff in his
trivia book on New York City.
   "Did you get twenty-four dollars?" he asked.
   "I never got a penny," I said.
   "The Museum of New York City gives twenty-four dollar awards to New
Yorkers who do good deeds. That's the price that New York was bought for
from the Indians. I'll recommend you for it," he said.  I hardly contained
myself, so I told my sister, who was also there.
   "Twenty-four dollars, that's income," she said. "You can deduct
expenses on your taxes."
    I'm now doing my taxes. I can't deduct anything--not my trip to the
British Isles, not my trips to the Library of Congress, nothing. Twenty-four
dollars, if it DOES come, will buy me about half of DARE III.  That's half
of one book. Maybe I can buy two letters.
    I should have been prepared for this by now, but things have gotten
worse. I'm still shocked about what's happened after I solved the origin of
Chicago's nickname, "the Windy City."
    I spent twelve weeks to get a form rejection letter from the Chicago
Historical Society that the meaning of Chicago's nickname wasn't for
them--well, that's old news. I'd like to deduct the $100 in mailing and
copying costs, just like any other donation--ah, forget it.
   THE WINDY CITY was published in the January 1997 issue of Comments on
Etymology, with a few errors. The New York Evening Telegram picked the
phrase up from the Louisville Courier-Journal as early as May 12, not May 22,
1886. Also and most importantly, a cartoon was not published. In the Puck
of 28 April 1886, pages 136-137 (a week before the Haymarket Riots that would
give Chicago its nickname), Miss Justice is seen using a prick called "Law"
to puncture "THE BIG BOYCOTT WIND-BAG." It's great stuff.
    I sent it all to the Chicago Tribune, a great newspaper that is
celebrating its 150th anniversary. I thought they could use this--a free,
exclusive story on the origin of "the Windy City." I told them to print it
around the Haymarket Riot date of May 4. An e-mail message was also sent,
and I begged, begged, BEGGED for the simple courtesy of a response.
    The Chicago Tribune never responded.
    So I sent it all to the Chicago Sun-Times, and I BEGGED, BEGGED,
BEGGED, BEGGED FOR THE SIMPLE COURTESY OF A RESPONSE.
    The Chicago Sun-Times never responded, either.
    These are newspapers that ran stories of Dennis Rodman's mascara on
page one.
    Through the internet, I got the addresses of all forty of Chicago's
aldermen. Three weeks ago, I wrote forty letters. Forty letters. Forty
letters! FORTY LETTERS!! I went to Kinko's Copies at three a.m. after a
full day's work; each package of stuff cost me about $12.
    I told each of Chicago's alderman the meaning of "the Windy City." I
asked them to honor the appropriate people this and every May 4th, and to
possibly put up plaques. This is, after all, their job.
    Maybe I should have asked for big bucks, like twenty-four dollars.
 What I did ask for--again--was the simple courtesy of a response.
    Well, it's three weeks later! As I'm doing to everyone, guess who
responded! Guess how many of the forty people! Guess! Guess!!
    I got it back yesterday!
    Alderman Burton F. Natarus, 100 W. Grand Ave., Chicago, IL 60610.
 RETURNED TO SENDER. FT. DEARBORN SECTION 10 ATTEMPTED NOT KNOWN.
    No one! No one responded at all!!
    NOBODY!!
    Is this all a cruel cosmic joke? Can anyone, ANYONE out there give
me any good reason for living???
    STRONGER APPLESAUCE! I NEED STRONGER APPLESAUCE RIGHT NOW!!

"This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper."

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:48:27 -0400
From:  "M. Lynne Murphy" <104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: official english

in case you haven't seen this...

lynne


------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

From:      daily[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]chronicle.com
Date sent:   Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:00:00 EDT
To:       daily[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]chronicle.com
Subject:    4/10/97 Daily Report from ACADEME TODAY

Academe Today's DAILY REPORT
for subscribers of The Chronicle of Higher Education
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

MAGAZINES & JOURNALS

A glance at the April issue of "The Atlantic Monthly": Is
"official English" a threat to U.S. unity?

For centuries, countries around the world have been divided over
the disparate languages spoken by their citizens. Language as a
divisive social and political force is a concept alien to
Americans, but is that changing? asks Robert D. King, a
linguistics professor at the University of Texas at Austin. In
spite of many state and local laws designating English as the
"official language," and despite the conservative "English Only"
movement, "America is not threatened by language," Dr. King
 writes. Language is a potentially explosive issue in countries
like Canada and Belgium because it is the defining
characteristic of nationality, he writes. But countries such as
Switzerland, which has four official languages, and India, which
recognizes 19, are not divided over language because they have
strong national identities, Dr. King writes. In the United
States, issues such as immigration, the rights of minority
groups, and bilingual education fuel the English Only movement.
"I suggest that we relax and luxuriate in our linguistic
richness and our traditional tolerance of language differences,"
he writes. "Benign neglect is a good policy for any country when
it comes to language, and it's a good policy for America." (The
magazine may be found at your library or newsstand.)
_________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:03:31 -0600
From:  Miriam Meyers <MMEYERS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUS1.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: poor whites

I agree with Ellen Johnson that reading Dorothy Allison's novel "Bastard
out of Carolina" is instructive. So is her novel "Trash," even more raw
than "Bastard." She's an extremely powerful writer about poor Southern
whites.

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:46:46 -0400
From:  "Peter L. Patrick" <PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: poor whites

I meant to post on this before but didn't have my copy available.
The Winter 96 issue of Human Organization has an article by Jane
Gibson that I found very helpful: "The Social Construction of
Whiteness in Shellcracker Haven, Florida".Abstract:

This artiocle examines the ways in which socially coinstructed racial
categories are operationalized. It challenges popular and scholarly
representations of the meanings of "whiteness" and considers processes
of racial identity formation uin the production of white poverty. The
primary thesis is that poor whites... are racially denigrated in the
context of the historically specific social, political and economic
processes that pauperize them. These processes are necessarily unique
because, unlike visible minorities whose distinctive physiognomy
facilitates socially constructed differentiation, the distancing and
devaluation of poor whites requires other tactics. These include
constrcution of stereotyped images, behaviors and values which create
social distance and "explain" white poverty. A secondary thesis holds
that racial denigration of poor whites intensifies racism. Racism acts
as a unilateral (and seldom reciprocated) assertion of membership in
privileged white society. It also blocks identification with others
who... also find themselves poor and disenfranchised. By promoting
racism aimed at non-white social groups, racism aimed at poor whites
protects the status quo of the distribution of power and privilege in
the US.

    If you find the abstract a bit dense, as I did at first,
Gibson's wonderful case study of a poor N Fla fishing community makes
a lot of it clear and vivid. She also points out how few studies of
poor whites consider race as a relevant category and cites some of the
few, most of them studies of Appalachia.
    --peter p.

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:40:06 -0500
From:  Luanne von Schneidemesser <lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: DSNA conference info

For those of you waiting for registration information for the DSNA
conference in Madison in May, we have been informed that this has finally
been mailed. Our apologies for the delay; it was out of our hands. In the
meantime, you could take a look at DARE's homepage, where I've posted the
information. We hope to see you in Madison soon. We promise warmer weather
than we have now (not a hard promise to keep).

In case any of you are not yet DSNA members and will therefore not receive
the mailing but are interested, please let us know.

Luanne
_____________________________

Luanne von Schneidemesser
Dictionary of American Regional English
University of Wisconsin-Madison
6129 H.C. White Hall
600 N. Park St.
Madison WI 53706
(608) 263-2748

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:28:05 -0700
From:  Peter Richardson <prichard[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: DSNA conference info

Could you please send me the www address of the DARE home page? Thanks
very much!

Peter Richardson

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:24:20 +0900
From:  Daniel Long <dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOHO.OSAKA-SHOIN.AC.JP>
Subject: Re: DSNA conference info

Peter Richardson wrote:
> Could you please send me the www address of the DARE home page? Thanks
> very much!

I wanted it too. Here's what I found on Yahoo. I'd like to say that I
think  Luanne von Schneidemesser and Joan Houston Hall do not only an
excellent job with DARE itself, but with keeping us all furnished with
DARE information relevant to the ADS-l topics. I hope you will keep us
posted on developments at the website as well.
http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/dare/dare.html

Danny Long

(Dr.) Daniel Long, Associate Professor
Japanese Language Research Center
Osaka Shoin Women's College
4-2-26 Hishiyanishi
Higashi-Osaka-shi, Osaka Japan 577
tel and fax +81-6-729-1831
email dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]joho.osaka-shoin.ac.jp
http://www.age.or.jp/x/oswcjlrc/index-e.htm

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:53:50 +0000
From:  Bill Spruiell <3lfyuji[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Variation in "try"-complements?

This is one of those topics that may have already been discussed; if
so, please accept apologies --

In my grammar class yesterday, I was engaged in presenting the unit
on verbs that take gerundial or infinitival objects. I checked to see
if anyone used the "enjoy to X" pattern; as I expected for my
Michigan class, no one did. However, when I got to the class of verb
constructions that change meaning depending on whether the object is
an infinitive or gerund ("forgot to lock the door" vs. "forgot
locking the door"), I got a surprise. None of my students could
detect any difference between "tried opening the door" and "tried to open
the door", even when I supplied extensive contexts, different
verbals, etc.

Assuming that they really do use the gerund and infinitive objects
interchangably with "try" -- i.e. that it's not an artifact of my
presentation of the subject -- I was wondering what the dialectal
status of this "reassignment" is. Is it common over a wide area, or
have I stumbled into a Central Michigan shibboleth? I'm considering
it as being in varience with "standard" since textbooks
(particularly ESL textbooks) class "try" with "forget";
as a southerner, I'm a bit leery of trusting my instincts on things
like this (I was 23 before I found out that "fixing to" was nonStandard).

Thanks --- Bill Spruiell
-------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed in this message do not necessarily represent those of Central Michigan U.

Bill Spruiell
Central Michigan University
Dept. of English Language and Literature

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 9 Apr 1997 to 10 Apr 1997
***********************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 10 Apr 1997 to 11 Apr 1997

There are 13 messages totalling 522 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Variation in "try"-complements? (10)
 2. sharing data for free on internet
 3. Gullah -- help needed
 4. Mission & Goals

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:21:55 -0700
From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey <rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

This has piqued some curiosity. I grew up in NYC and have lived there or
in the Bay Area for the rest thus far. I never heard "enjoy to X" pattern
(I assumed you meant infinitive there as opposed to gerund). I clearly
understand the difference between "forgot to lock the door" vs. "forgot
locking the door." But I, too, don't get a difference between the "tried"
examples.

Rima

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:46:00 -0400
From:  "David A. Johns" <djohns[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PEACHNET.CAMPUS.MCI.NET>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

At 10:53 PM 4/10/97 +0000, Bill Spruiell wrote:

> However, when I got to the class of verb
>constructions that change meaning depending on whether the object is
>an infinitive or gerund ("forgot to lock the door" vs. "forgot
>locking the door"), I got a surprise. None of my students could
>detect any difference between "tried opening the door" and "tried to open
>the door", even when I supplied extensive contexts, different
>verbals, etc.

I don't get "forgot locking the door" at all -- can't imagine what it means.
With _try_, I sense an aspectual difference that has pragmatic consequences
in certain contexts: "Would you try to open the door" implies that I think
it will be hard, while "Would you try opening the door" suggests that I want
to see if it has some effect, such as cooling the house down. But I don't
feel any difference in "He walked up onto the porch and tried [to open |
opening] the door, but when he found it was locked, turned around and left."

I don't think I've noticed any unfamiliar gerunds since being in Georgia,
although I may have lost them in the sea of unexpected progressives ("I'm
needing a new notebook," etc.). I'll have to listen.

David Johns
Waycross College
Waycross, GA
(originally from real Yankee country, though not a real Yankee myself, since
my family hadn't lived there for umpteen generations. And weren't farmers.
But we did eat "rat cheese" with apple pie.)

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:55:07 -0500
From:  Wayne Glowka <wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

>This has piqued some curiosity. I grew up in NYC and have lived there or
>in the Bay Area for the rest thus far. I never heard "enjoy to X" pattern
>(I assumed you meant infinitive there as opposed to gerund). I clearly
>understand the difference between "forgot to lock the door" vs. "forgot
>locking the door." But I, too, don't get a difference between the "tried"
>examples.
>
>Rima

So what is the difference in the "forgot" locutions?

Wayne Glowka

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 06:41:28 -0600
From:  "Susan G. North" <snorth[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

As an East Tennesseean, I don't get the difference between the "tried
locking" and "tried to lock" either. You'd have to supply those difference
contexts for me as well. However, students in my English classes here at
the University of Tennessee, most of whom are also Tennesseans, frequently
write "try and ..." instead of "tried to ..." Any thoughts on that?

Susan North
Department of English
The University of Tennessee
snorth[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:40:30 -0600
From:  Kat Rose <Kat.Rose[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SPOT.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

Bill Spruiell asked if the interchangeable use of gerund and infinitive
objects with "try" were common in areas other than Central Michigan.

I grew up in the Quint (now Quad) Cities, Illinois side, and have been in
Colorado (north central Front Range) for 25 years. This interchangeable use
is common in conversation in both places. I use "tried opening..." for both
"attempted the task of opening..." and "attempted to achieve a goal by
opening...", taking meaning from context.

HTH


[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]>-->---
Kat Rose   Kat.Rose[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]spot.Colorado.edu
My words, my rights, my responsibility

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:08:34 -0700
From:  Peter McGraw <pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, David A. Johns wrote:

> At 10:53 PM 4/10/97 +0000, Bill Spruiell wrote:
>
> > However, when I got to the class of verb
> >constructions that change meaning depending on whether the object is
> >an infinitive or gerund ("forgot to lock the door" vs. "forgot
> >locking the door"), I got a surprise. None of my students could
> >detect any difference between "tried opening the door" and "tried to open
> >the door", even when I supplied extensive contexts, different
> >verbals, etc.
>
> I don't get "forgot locking the door" at all -- can't imagine what it means.
> With _try_, I sense an aspectual difference that has pragmatic consequences
> in certain contexts: "Would you try to open the door" implies that I think
> it will be hard, while "Would you try opening the door" suggests that I want
> to see if it has some effect, such as cooling the house down. But I don't
> feel any difference in "He walked up onto the porch and tried [to open |
> opening] the door, but when he found it was locked, turned around and left."

Ditto from Oregon. This describes my usage exactly. I haven't lived
in Oregon all my life (though my growing up was here and in S.
California), but I'm fairly sure I would have noticed any variation from
my own usage in this matter.

Peter McGraw
Linfield College
McMinnville, OR

>
> I don't think I've noticed any unfamiliar gerunds since being in Georgia,
> although I may have lost them in the sea of unexpected progressives ("I'm
> needing a new notebook," etc.). I'll have to listen.
>
> David Johns
> Waycross College
> Waycross, GA
> (originally from real Yankee country, though not a real Yankee myself, since
> my family hadn't lived there for umpteen generations. And weren't farmers.
> But we did eat "rat cheese" with apple pie.)
>

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:42:06 -0700
From:  Peter Richardson <prichard[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

> > I don't get "forgot locking the door" at all -- can't imagine what it
> means.
 I suspect the meaning is "forgot that I had locked the door" or
 "forgot having locked the door." This, of course, is just the opposite
 of "forgot to lock the door."

As long as we're on "forget," how about "remember"? i.e. I remembered
visiting him at home vs. I remembered to visit him at home. (I trust that
no one out there confuses these two, but am certainly willing to be proven
wrong.)

As a newcomer to this list, I don't know whether the overstated "I would
have liked to have seen him" has come up, or what the opinions (I won't
reveal mine) are about
        I would like to have seen him
            and
        I would have liked to see him.
Some treat these as equals, some don't, and others (most, I guess) just go
for the gusto and combine the two, as in the first example at the
beginning of this paragraph.

> > to see if it has some effect, such as cooling the house down. But I don't
> > feel any difference in "He walked up onto the porch and tried [to open |
> > opening] the door, but when he found it was locked, turned around and left."
I think either works fine in this larger context, but--as you--can
certainly feel a difference in the shorter phrases between
infinitive-as-object and gerund-as-object. (My formative language
background: northern Illinois)

Peter Richardson
Linfield College / Oregon>

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:07:13 -0500
From:  Gregory Pulliam <gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

Has anyone else noted "try for" instead of "try to" +present
participle/infinitive? I'm don't recall for sure, but I think I heard this
in Memphis, perhaps by a speaker of AAVE.

Greg Pulliam
gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
Illinois Institute of Technology
Chicago

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:35:22 -0400
From:  Beverly Flanigan <FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

  This is the same construction I wrote about a few days ago, when I said
  that I heard "want for/try for/plan for" etc. from a white classmate
  who had lived as a child in South Carolina. I don't recall whether she
  used it with an infinitive only or with a gerund as well--only the
  former sticks in my memory.

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:45:49 -0500
From:  Gregory Pulliam <gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

>  This is the same construction I wrote about a few days ago, when I said
>  that I heard "want for/try for/plan for" etc. from a white classmate
>  who had lived as a child in South Carolina. I don't recall whether she
>  used it with an infinitive only or with a gerund as well--only the
>  former sticks in my memory.

I can clearly hear "I mo try for goin to work now" as well as "I mo try for
go to work now." But then, I clearly hear sounds coming from Hale-Bopp,
too.

Greg Pulliam
gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
Illinois Institute of Technology
Chicago

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:11:52 CST
From:  Ellen Johnson <Ellen.Johnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WKU.EDU>
Subject: sharing data for free on internet

   I'm not really clear on how all this will affect linguists, but it is
   a warning that we may not be able to share our data over the internet
   if proposals in Congress to privatize access are passed. Ellen


______________________________ Forward Header
__________________________________
Subject: More on CODATA "Bits of Power" study
Author: Julian Humphries <julian[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UKANS.EDU> at INETGW
Date:  4/11/97 11:14 AM


A little more info on the Bits of Power study. What follows are the
introductory remarks to the press provided by the chair of the study
committee, Steve Berry. Anybody with additional questions about CODATA or
its activities should feel free to contact me for information.
 **********************************************

            Public Briefing April 10, 1997

               OPENING STATEMENT

               R. Stephen Berry

 James Franck Distinguished Service Professor Department of Chemistry and
      the James Franck Institute The University of Chicago

                   and

  Chair, Committee on Issues in the Transborder Flow of Scientific Data
             National Research Council

      Good morning. I welcome you today as we release the report
 Bits of Power: Issues in Global Access to Scientific Data. This report
 represents the work of a National Research Council committee that I have
 chaired during the past two years. At the behest of the U.S. National
 Committee for CODATA (Committee on Data for Science and Technology of the
 International Council of Scientific Unions), our study group has
 investigated the changing environment for the international exchange of
 data in the natural sciences. We have completed our study and now offer
 our conclusions and recommendations in this report.
      I shall assume that we all share the view that research in the
 natural sciences is a necessary component of our society, and that
 maintaining the health of this enterprise is something we all consider
 important. Scientific data are essential to that health; without ready
 access to data, scientists could not conduct their research.
      Fostered by the tools of modern electronic communication, the
 nature of science today is perhaps the most truly international of all
 human activities. In carrying out our research, we scientists exchange
 ideas and data as readily with colleagues in Tokyo or Sydney or Berlin as
 we do with those in our own universities or federal laboratories. A
 fundamental principle underlies our report which embodies this
 characteristic in the context of data: Full and open exchange of
 scientific data -- the "bits of power" on which the health of the
 scientific enterprise depends -- is vital for the nation's progress and
 for maximizing the social benefits that accrue from science worldwide.
 This principle of "full and open exchange" means that data and information
 derived from publicly funded research should be available with as few
 restrictions as possible, on a non-discriminatory basis, for no more than
 the cost of reproduction and distribution. This principle -- sometimes
 called "the Bromley principle" -- was first
 enunciated in the context of global change research, in a statement of
 the Office of Science and Technology Policy in July, 1991.
      Two trends, sometimes in conflict, are challenging the
 attainment of full and open sharing of scientific data across national
 boundaries. One is the rapid increase in volume of data that stems from
 technical advances such as computers, networks, and remote sensors. The
 other is a global trend toward imposing economic and legal restrictions
 on access to scientific data derived from publicly funded research. The
 first trend forces scientists to re-examine how they carry out their own
 work, and the second, to involve themselves in the formation of public
 policies that will affect their capabilities for doing research.
      One manifestation of these trends acting in concert is the
 growing congestion of the Internet. This stems from the simultaneous
 needs of scientists to exchange ever-larger volumes of data, and the
 evolution of the primary role of the Internet from a medium of scientific
 communication to a medium of commerce and entertainment.
      The committee is particularly concerned about possible changes
 to treaties and laws covering intellectual property, which would have
 adverse effects on the conduct of science. The problem reached a crux
 with current attempts, both national and international, to establish a new
 legal framework that threatens to subordinate the needs of scientists and
 others working in the public interest, to the interests of entrepreneurs
 in the business of selling databases. Put in perspective, the challenge
 of the underlying issue is finding a balance between the protection of
 public goods and the protection of individual intellectual property.
 Unfortunately, the concerns of the scientific and educational communities
 went unheard in the dialogue until very recently.
      The committee believes that it is imperative for the scientific
 community to have a part in formulating the structures that will suitably
 balance the public and private interests. This is especially important
 now because the World Intellectual Property Organization is considering a
 new treaty on database protection, and related proposals to enact
 domestic legislation protecting databases are under consideration for
 Congressional action. We view proposals that have appeared thus far as
 extremely threatening to the conduct of scientific research. They would
 remove the "fair use" exemptions which have long allowed scientists and
 educators to use copyrighted materials free or at very reduced costs,
 specifically for purposes such as research and teaching. These proposals
 would create exclusive, monopolistic rights of virtually unlimited
 duration for database owners, and would make it extremely difficult in
 many cases for competitive data-suppliers to enter the market.
      The committee recommends, as a general principle, that full and
 open access be adopted as the international norm for scientific data
 derived from publicly funded research. More specific recommendations fall
 into four categories: legal issues, economic issues, technological
 issues, and, of course, data issues internal to the natural sciences.
      The five recommendations concerning legal issues are directed
 toward the Office of Science and Technology Policy, science agencies and
 professional societies including CODATA, and all others concerned with
 sustaining the health of the scientific enterprise.
      First, these bodies should advocate and explain to all relevant
 legislative forums the principle of full and open exchange of scientific
 data.
      Second, they should demand that national and international
 legislative processes now in progress allow the scientific and
 educational communities to participate in the dialogue and present their
 views. This must be done to achieve a balance between concerns for
 public goods and for private intellectual property.
      Third, these groups should advocate the incorporation of fair
 use principles into any legislation or regulation structure applying to
 scientific data on electronic media.
      Fourth, these bodies and individuals should work with Congress
 and the U.S. representatives to the World Trade Organization and the
 World Intellectual Property Organization to resist measures that could
 weaken the nation's preeminence in science and technology.
      Finally, these issues should be pursued not only within the
 United States but also internationally, through international scientific
 organizations and U.S. foreign policy channels concerned with
 intellectual property.
      The dominant economic concerns of the report stem from the ways
 and means by which scientific data are generated, archived and
 distributed, and with the trend toward commercialization of increasing
 quantities of data. Some of this commercialization is privatization of
 activities that were previously done by governments, and some is entry of
 governments into commercial vending of data. One might initially suppose
 that privatizing the distribution of scientific data would be desirable.
 However, a careful analysis shows that the market for scientific data is
 very different from those of ordinary commerce, and that privatization
 may, in many situations, be undesirable for the society as a whole. The
 committee recommends a set of economic criteria for structuring
 facilities and institutions for the distribution of scientific data
 generated by public funding.
      Within the sciences, relevant scientific organizations should
 examine the development of better coordinated networks of data centers.
 Planning is needed now to find stable ways to maintain the effectiveness
 of the Internet or some variant thereof for exchange of scientific
 information. Scientists who generate data through publicly funded
 research should make their results available as soon as possible. If
 they wish to hold a data set for some period in order to explore its
 consequences, the duration of that period should be established by the
 particular scientific communities, and adherence should be monitored by
 the appropriate funding agency. The Office of Science and Technology
 Policy should develop an overall policy for the long-term retention of
 scientific data. Finally, a variety of efforts, including aid in the
 form of computers and networks, is needed to assist developing countries
 to participate fully in electronic data management and exchange for
 research and education--for their benefit and
 ours.
      Thank you all. We would like to begin now to take your
 questions. Would you come to one of the standing microphones and state
 your name and affiliation before you begin your question?

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------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:41:38 -0500
From:  Dan Goodman <dsgood[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VISI.COM>
Subject: Gullah -- help needed

This is from Stumpers-L (a list mostly for reference librarians).

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:17:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sylvia Keys <skeys[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pioneer.uspto.gov>
To:  Pam McLaughin <pmclaugh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccs.nsls.lib.il.us>
Cc:  stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]crf.cuis.edu
Subj: Re: ?how to learn Gullah

I believe the Gullah "language" originated in or around South
Carolina, and the islands nearby. Perhaps a phone book from that area,
with a list of bookstores would help. I wrote a paper on the language
in the 70's, if I remember correctly, most of my sources, were
magazine articles. Did you try an encyclopedia? Then checking their
sources?

Sylvia Keys
Trademark Law Library
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Pam McLaughin wrote:

My patron's teacher is reading a book set on the Sea Islands to her
class. Bits of the book are in Gullah. My young patron is interested
in getting a book or tape on learning Gullah. I tried the Illinois
state database, but found only weighty tomes that seemed to be more on
the history and development of Gullah as opposed to a "Conversational
Gullah in 7 Days" sorta thing.

Do any East coast w*mb*ts have a hint for me?
TIA

Pam McLaughlin       Phone: 847 566-8702
Fremont Public Library   FAX:  847 566-0204
470 N. Lake St.       pmclaugh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccs.nslsilus.org
Mundelein, IL  60060

Dan Goodman
dsgood[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.

------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:00:27 -0400
From:  TERRY IRONS <t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU>
Subject: Mission & Goals

Recently, I have been reading some of the new material Donald Lance has
included in an expanded 12th edition of Kenyon's American Speech (which
should be soon available from the George Wahr Publishing Company in Ann
Arbor Michigan). In addition to a brilliant "Spectrographic Analysis of
English Phonemes and Allophones" supplement, Lance's chapter on
"Variation in American English" is the sine que non discussion of the
history of ADS' efforts to accomplish its two goals, as presented in
1889: a dialect dictionary of North America and a complete
linguistic atlas of the United States and Canada.

With DARE, we will see the achievement of the first goal.

As we enter our second century of existence as a learned society, I would
invite members and others to contribute their thoughts concerning the
viability of accomplishing the second goal. What resources should be
directed toward the completion of what was started in 1928?

Further, what should ADS present as its goals for its next century?



Virtually, Terry
(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)
Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu
Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164
Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351
(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 10 Apr 1997 to 11 Apr 1997
************************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 12 Apr 1997 to 13 Apr 1997

There are 3 messages totalling 93 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. With friends like this...
 2. Name removal
 3. Variation in "try"-complements?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:36:52 EDT
From:  Larry Horn <LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU>
Subject: With friends like this...

I appreciate William Safire's "On Language" columns every Sunday in the Times.
I really do. He often has a knack of providing citations illustrating
precisely the construction(s) I've just been discussing in class; in today's
column (4/12), for instance, his example "volunteer volunteer" (now evidently
used by around the White House for what used to be called a volunteer, i.e. an
unpaid aide, now that so many of the volunteers are evidently paid ones) is
simultaneously a clone (a.k.a. double) and a retronym (a la "acoustic guitar",
"analog watch", "biological mother"), i.e. a compound or phrase with a newly
necessary modifier. BUT Safire ALSO has this to say...

     (quoting Jesse Sheidlower and William Kretzschmar, who I'm sure will
     be delighted to be mentioned a paragraph away from these remarks)

  "We all know that when it comes to language change, a mere running together
  of words, or elision, ain't nuthin' compared with an affricate, in which an
  explosive consonant (like p, b, and t) is followed by a fricative consonant
  (like th and f) to transform both into a whole new ball game. Fistfights
  break out in American Dialect Society meetings over whether affricates like
  "judge" and "church" should be considered one syllable or two, and whether
  blends like "gotcha" and "let's" have become grammaticalized, or fused into
  a unit."

I certainly hope that whichever one of us was claiming that all affricates are
bisyllabic, presumably the same ADSer who was maintaining that "let's"
ISN'T "fused into a unit" (what else WOULD it be?), got the worst of the
scuffle. Of course, this (I strongly suspect apocryphal) ADSer would have
gone on record as describing the lexical items "judge" and "church" as
affricates in the first place--crusin' for a bruisin', fer sure.
  But then I suspect phonology isn't exactly Mr. Safire's strong suit.
Besides the somewhat peculiar consonants he uses to illustrate the explosive +
fricative = affricate equation (-bth-? -tf-? --even cross-linguistically, not
to mention just Englishly, these are, shall we say, rather marked affricate
combos), there was also LAST week's column, in which the pronunciation of
"seminal" as 'SEHM-uh-null' in place of the "correct" 'SEE-muh-null' was
presented as an instance of "academic bowdlerization". That is, we academics
for generations have been covering up the fact that 'seminal' is derived from
'semen', an instance of what we (although not he) would call taboo avoidance.
Right--and we pronounce 'vanity', 'sanity', cleanliness', 'brevity', 'criminal'
'chemical', etc. etc. with initial short vowels so we can cover up the
relation between these trisyllabic words and their long-voweled counterparts in
vain, sane, clean, brief, crime, chemo-. In fact, the whole trisyllabic
laxing business is no doubt a conspiracy on the part of insidious bowdlerizing
academics to cover up our embarrassment at pronouncing 'seminal' (and
'seminar'--which I'm sure is "correctly" rendered SEE-muh-nar) with the vowel
of 'semen'.


--Larry

------------------------------

Date:  Sun, 13 Apr 1997 04:27:18 -0400
From:  Noel Cave <Noelnmc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Name removal

Please send me the information to remove my name from this mailing list.

------------------------------

Date:  Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:49:03 +0000
From:  Bill Spruiell <3lfyuji[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

Thus far, it seems as if there is quite a bit of variation on
people's interpretations of 'try', 'remember', and 'forget' with the
two complement types. One reason I raised the issue was that
textbooks, specifically ESL textbooks like Azar's [a staple in many
ESL grammar courses] present a nice, neat system with four verb
categories and clear rules for interpreting meaning changes in
category 4 (to which those verbs "belong"). Now, the last thing that
would surprise me is that a pedagogical grammar covers up some
variation; however, in many other cases, there's some hazily defined
but *recognized*"standard" that the ignored variations are variations
 *to* (e.g. most prescriptive grammars don't address the "fixing to"
construction, but I think most authors of them are aware of it and
consciously regard it as a regional item). I'm left wondering to what
extent variation with these complements has reached "pedagogical
awareness", and whether textbook authors are, on this issue,
*unconsciously* creating a standard rather than consciously
attempting to manifest a standard they believe exists.
-------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed in this message do not necessarily represent those of Central Michigan U.

Bill Spruiell
Central Michigan University
Dept. of English Language and Literature

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 12 Apr 1997 to 13 Apr 1997
************************************************

Subject: ADS-L Digest - 13 Apr 1997 to 14 Apr 1997

There are 7 messages totalling 249 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. "College Widow" (from Union College!); another "Old College Try"
 2. Tom Collins (an alcoholic drink)
 3. Variation in "try"-complements?
 4. With friends like this...
 5. Hoosier (2)
 6. Melungeon once more

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:51:54 -0400
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: "College Widow" (from Union College!); another "Old College Try"

COLLEGE WIDOW:

   Another OED antedate--just scribble this in them there margins.
   The Cornell Widow (Ithaca, NY) is one of the greatest college humor
magazines, and one of the first. I believe 1896 was its first year. It
helped me with "hot dog" and many other slang items. I'd always wanted, of
course, to solve the "college widow."
   RHDAS has:

1900 DNII 29: _College-widow_, n. A girl new men meet from year to year but
whom no one every marries.
1934 Weseen _Dict. Slang_ 177: _College widow_--A noncollege girl or woman
who flirts with students.

   This misses, obviously, the Cornell Widow (1896-). It also misses OED,
which has:

COLLEGE WIDOW, _U.S. colloq._ (see quot.)
1887 _Lippincott's Mag._ Aug. 298 That class of young ladies known among the
students as "college widows," and commonly supposed to have the acquaintance
of several generations of collegians.

   I was looking for "color line" in 1874, when by accident I found--no, I
knew it was there all along and it was a stroke of genius!! Anyway, this is
from the New Orleans Picayune, 13 August 1874, pg. 4, col. 1:

In Schenectady the girls who are "left" by the college students are called
"college widows."

  THE WAY WE WERE was filmed at Union College in Schenectady. I wonder
what Barbra Streisand has to say about this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -----------------------------

OLD COLLEGE TRY:

  Willard Mullin has a cartoon of "The Old College Try" in the NY
World-Telegram, 16 June 1939, pg. 24. A galley master is whipping a rowing
team into shape. I was, of course, looking for the Brooklyn bum at the time.
   Directly above "college widow" in RHDAS is "college try," and this entry
is also wrong. The first entry should NOT be from the July 18, 1927 NY Sun.
 This was, indeed, the first entry in the April 1930 American Speech article,
but the second entry in that article, from the 26 November 1927 Columbus
(Ohio) Citizen, is the correct citation.
   Glad to be of help. I hope this counts toward my final grade.

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:52:19 -0400
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Tom Collins (an alcoholic drink)

   Who is Tom Collins??
   WHAT'S IN A NAME? by Paul Dickson (1996) says, on page 102, "A
19th-century bartender who worked at Limmer's Old House in London."
   Robert Hendrickson's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORD AND PHRASE ORIGINS has:

TOM COLLINS. Many sources tell us that the _Tom Collins_--that refreshing,
tall drink made with gin (or vermouth), lemon (or lime), sugar, and soda
water--honors its bartender-creator. Yet no one has been able to establish
who Tom Collins was, where he came from, or when he first mixed the drink.
 Variations on the Tom Collins include the _John Collins_ (whiskey) and the
_Marimba Collins (rum). The Tom Collins is claimed by many, but the lack of
evidence indicates that its real creator didn't mix well, at least socially.
 The best prospect is probably John Collins, a 19th-century bartender at
London's Limmer Hotel who did not devise but was famous for his gin sling--a
tall gin and lemon drink that resembles the Tom Collins.

   This repeats H. L. Mencken's AMERICAN LANGUAGE, SUPPLEMENT I, pg. 254.
 The first citation in the DAE is 1909.
   OED has this item under "Collins" (first entry is 1944) and "Tom
Collins." Under the latter is:

1888 H. JOHNSON _New Improved Bartenders Man._ (rev. ed.) 227 *Tom Collins.

   I was looking for, well, "color line," when I found two traces of the
guy.

7 July 1874, Atlanta Constitution, pg. 3, cols. 3-5.
   A cartoon shows four figures, all men out to club or shoot somebody.
 Below is:

WHERE IS TOM COLLINS?
ANSWER--Why, he left by the Great Kennesaw Route, with a Round Trip Ticket to
New York, which he purchased for ONLY $37, and the schedule is so fast and
connections so sure, you fellows can never catch him.

5 June 1874, New Orleans Picayune, pg. 1, col. 6:

   His Name it was Tom Collins.

   The Tom Collins hoax was inaugurated here by a very laughable episode in
which a noted man about town, C-- was made to play a prominent part.
   A party of friends, on the invitation of C--, adjourned to No. 1 1/2
for a long drink, when a friend of C's entered quickly and called him
aside--"Look here, old fellow, I was taking a drink just now at Andy Parle's,
when I overheard an individual denouncing you in the vilest manner. He said
you loafed on your friends, borowed money and never returned it, owed bills
in every quarter of the city, and were the biggest beat he knew. I inquired
who he was and he gave his name as Tom Collins. He is to be found at
Parle's." C-- never doubting for an instant the truth of this statement so
seriously made, darted off with two friends, armed himself with revolver and
knife, and went in quest of Tom Collins. He visited Parle's; Tom Collins had
just left for Alf. Custer's; he followed him there to find he had just gone
to the Phoenix, from thence to the Green Room, and thence to Hawkin's. That
morning, J. C---, a noted railroad man, had just come in from Kansas. His
friends, in order to express their appreciation of his companionship, gave
him a big dinner, and about eight o'clock that evening he entered Hawkins's,
dressed in an Indian costume he had brought with him, and a little the better
for his dinner. He was engaged in showing a circle of admiring friends how
to dance after the fashion of the Indians, when the party seeking Tom Collins
entered.
   "Is there a man here by the name of Tom Collins?" inquired C--,
addressing his question to the bar-keeper.
   "Yes, sir, there he is," rejoined the bartender, pointing to J. C--.
   C. approached the strangely arrayed savage, and said, "Are you Tom
Collins?"
   "Yes, sir, that's my name, les ta' a drink."
   "Then, sir, I have to inform you that you are a lying scoundrel."
   "Do you wa-n-t to-o-o f-ig-ht?" replied the Indian, putting himself in
position, and taking an arrow from his belt and sticking it in the floor.
 "My na-a-a-me i-i-s To-o-o-m Corrins, led's ta-a a drink."
   This conduct on the part of the conductor, who knew nothing of the hoax,
but, like a drunken man, answered to the first name he was accosted by, his
peculiar costume, and almost helpless condition, all contributed to appease
C., who begat to smell a mouse. He expressed his surmise to his friends, and
they consulted the bar keeper, who explained the whole affair to the infinite
amusement of all concerned.
   A round of drinks followed and were scarcely discussed when in rushed a
second individual who wanted Tom Collins. "Is Tom Collins here?" he
excitedly inquired.
   "Yes--by Gravy! thas me-e-e-e n-a-me. Do you wa-a-nt to fight? Les
ta-ake a drink."
   This last individual was rather more desperate than C. was inclined to
be, and was about to strike J. C. with a cane when his friends interposed and
explained the matter. He then started off to find the author of the joke he
had been made the butt of. The last seen of the befuscated conductor he was
being carried off by his friends, murmuring to himself as he passed along,
"Yes, by Gravy, me-e-e na-a-me's Tom Collins."

   The drink probably started soon thereafter.

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:35:13 -0500
From:  Wayne Glowka <wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Variation in "try"-complements?

>Wayne,
>
>The different senses I got were for the first, that here I am in the middle
>of the freeway and damn! I forgot to lock the door, I hope no one breaks
>in. The second seems as if it could be I forgot whether or not I locked
>the door, or I don't have a clear memory of having locked the door, or I
>lock the door so automatically that I forgot locking it and so you couldn't
>get out until you called for help.  Any clearer?
>
>Of course, I usually only get to check e-mail at night, so maybe it's just
>that it's late.
>
>Rima

No, but thanks anyway.

Wayne Glowka

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:04:05 EDT
From:  Larry Horn <LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU>
Subject: Re: With friends like this...

Thanks for your comments. I agree entirely; in fact the same class of mine I
referred to in my message (the one in which we've been discussing retronyms and
clones of the "volunTEER volunteer" variety) we've just gotten through discuss-
ing the chapter you mention, Pinker on "The Language Mavens" re Safire et al.
In fact I took the occasion of their having read Pinker's exigesis of the
Barbra Streisand line to get my undergraduates to come up with their own
similar deconstruction of Safire's 4/6 column on "SEH-muh-null" as taboo
avoidance. At the same time, I (like Pinker) do get more out of reading
Safire than out of reading most of his ilk; he doesn't always condemn new
usage out of hand, he often comes up with interesting examples and cites--al-
though I grant that all too often he speaks with unearned authority and with
an often careless and sometimes insulting disregard of previous scholarship
on particular issues--cf. inter all too many alia his coverage of NOT! back in
March '92, when he cited a syndicated column by Linda Shrieves of the Orlando
Sentinel without bothering to track down the linguists Shrieves cited, or his
various "discoveries" of lexical and grammatical constructions some of us have
spent many years analyzing and writing about.  But despite his carelessness,
he does have a love for language as a vibrant entity and for speakers as
creative sources of innovation, which in itself distinguishes Safire from the
Edwin Newmans and John Simons who seem to be interested in nothing more than
standing on their soapboxes to shout out the imminent destruction of English
(and to blame the permissivism of the sixties for this demise).

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:55:59 -0500
From:  "Timothy C. Frazer" <mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hoosier

Raven McDavid had a paper on the origins of Hoosier. I think its in the
volume Bill K. edited.

Tim Frazer

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:34:28 EDT
From:  Terry Lynn Irons <t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hoosier

McDavid & McDavid's article on hoosier and cracker is to be
found in either volume 21 or volume 22 of _Names_ (1973-74).

--

Virtually, Terry
(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)
Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu
Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164
Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351
(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:01:45 -0400
From:  "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783" <BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Melungeon once more

In today's (4-14-97) Wall St Journal pp b-1 & b4 there's an article by a staff
reporter "Appalachian Clan Mines Web Sites for Ancestral Clues." In short, he
favors the Portugese ancestry for these WINs. Of interest to us, perhaps, are
the web resources mentioned: a web site http://www.uky.edu/RGS/Appal-Center and
a mailing list MELUNGEON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]rmgate.pop.indiana.edu
________________________________________________________________________
            david.bergdahl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ohiou.edu
        tel: (614) 593-2783      fax: (614) 593-2818
            Ohio University/Athens
        "Where Appalachia meets the Midwest"--Anya Briggs
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 13 Apr 1997 to 14 Apr 1997
************************************************

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There are 4 messages totalling 341 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Melungeon once more
 2. DSNA registration phone
 3. DSNA registration
 4. Hoosier

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:56:43 +0900
From:  Daniel Long <dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOHO.OSAKA-SHOIN.AC.JP>
Subject: Re: Melungeon once more

FYI, address should apparently have no hyphen as below.
http://www.uky.edu/RGS/AppalCenter/

David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783 wrote:
> In today's (4-14-97) Wall St Journal pp b-1 & b4 there's an article by a staff
> reporter "Appalachian Clan Mines Web Sites for Ancestral Clues." In short, he
> favors the Portugese ancestry for these WINs. Of interest to us, perhaps, are
> the web resources mentioned: a web site http://www.uky.edu/RGS/Appal-Center and
> a mailing list MELUNGEON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]rmgate.pop.indiana.edu

(Dr.) Daniel Long, Associate Professor
Japanese Language Research Center
Osaka Shoin Women's College
4-2-26 Hishiyanishi
Higashi-Osaka-shi, Osaka Japan 577
tel and fax +81-6-729-1831
email dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]joho.osaka-shoin.ac.jp
http://www.age.or.jp/x/oswcjlrc/index-e.htm

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:31:26 -0500
From:  Luanne von Schneidemesser <lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: DSNA registration phone

I am sorry to bother this list with this information. Please bear with us.
Would those of you calling Lowell Hall for accomodations for the DSNA
conference please note that the phone number you should call is (608)
256-2621, not the one listed in the materials sent out. (And yes, Ron, they
have a pool.)


Luanne
__________________
Luanne von Schneidemesser
Dictionary of American Regional English
University of Wisconsin-Madison
6129 H.C. White Hall
600 N. Park St.
Madison WI 53706
(608) 263-2748

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:04:02 -0500
From:  Luanne von Schneidemesser <lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: DSNA registration

I just received another message about not having received registration
materials for the DSNA conference.  I apologize. It is out of our hands.
We have been assured that it has been taken care of. To assist with the
problem, I am including them here. For those of you not interested, please
delete this message.

****************************************************************************
**********
             Dictionary of American Regional English
                            =20
Department of English               E-mail:
d-a-r-e[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin                     Telephone:
608-263-3810
6125 Helen C. White Hall
Fax: 608-263-3709
600 North Park Street                            =
  =20
Madison, Wisconsin 53706                    =20


March 4, 1997


Dear DSNA Member:

Enclosed you will find registration and housing materials for DSNA XI, the
Eleventh Biennial Meeting of the Dictionary Society of North America.=20
The conference will take place May 29-31, 1997 (with participants arriving
on Wednesday, May 28), on the campus of the University of
Wisconsin-Madison. Meetings will be held in the Wisconsin Center Guest
House (Lowell Hall), at 610 Langdon Street, where a block of rooms has
been reserved. Other housing options are also described on the enclosed
page. You should make housing reservations directly with the
accommodation you choose. DSNA rates for reservations are guaranteed
only until April 28 (see Housing enclosure). Please return your=
 registration
form to us by May 1.

In addition to an interesting array of papers, the program offers a=
 reception
in the Department of Special Collections of Memorial Library, where an
exhibit of early dictionaries will be on display; a traditional Wisconsin
picnic (described below); a visit to DARE offices, for any who are
interested; and a public forum on DARE following the scheduled papers.

Transportation to Madison: Airline service to the Dane Co. Regional
Airport is provided by American, Midway Express, Northwest, TWA, and
United, or their commuter links. There is very good, frequent bus service
(every 1-2 hours) from Chicago's O'Hare Airport provided by the Van
Galder Bus Company ($18 one way, 3 hours to the UW Memorial Union,
about a block from Lowell Hall; call(800) 747-0994 for a schedule);
Greyhound buses are less frequent, with the station several blocks from
Lowell Hall (call (800) 231-2222 or www.greyhound.com); Badger Coach
provides bus service from Milwaukee's Mitchell Field Airport, 2 hours to
the Memorial Union (call (608) 255-6771 or www.badgerbus.com).
  =20
If you are staying at the Edgewater and provide them with your flight
number and time of arrival, hotel staff will pick you up at the airport free=
 of
charge. There are taxis available at the airport to take you to the other
accommodations for about $12-$14, or you may rent a car at the airport; if
you will need parking, please inform your hotel.=20

In your registration packet you will find further information, including a=
 list
of restaurants (Madison is blessed with an abundance of good ones of all
types, many within walking distance of Lowell Hall), a list of participants,
the final program, and a campus map. You may pick up these materials in
the lobby of Lowell Hall on Wednesday, May 28, from 3:00-8:00 p.m., or
after 7:30 a.m. on Thursday. Plan to meet on the Union Terrace with other
conference participants Wednesday evening if you would like; some of us
will be there starting at 6:00 p.m. for informal conversation and
refreshments. =20

Conference information will also be posted on DARE's homepage
sometime in April. This is a good opportunity to check out our page if you
haven't yet done so: the address is polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/dare/dare.html.=
=20
The University's homepage can be found at wiscinfo.wisc.edu. A search of
the Net will also yield information on Madison and Dane County.

We look forward to seeing you in May. If you have any questions, don't
hesitate to contact us at the address or phone number on the letterhead.=20
Please let us know if you will need any special accommodations.=20
Beginning the afternoon of May 28th, the conference telephone number
will be (608) 262-6204.

Sincerely,



Joan Hall



Luanne von Schneidemesser

P.S. Those who can come early or stay late will find plenty of places to
visit. They include Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin in nearby Spring Green;
the Wisconsin Dells; the Circus World Museum and the International Crane
Foundation in Baraboo; Devil's Lake State Park; Old World Wisconsin in
Eagle; New Glarus, known as "Little Switzerland"; Pendarvis at Mineral
Point. Or stay in Madison and enjoy the museums, the UW Arboretum, the
State Capitol, State Street, the campus, and the shores of Lake Mendota
(no visit to Madison is complete without a stop at the Memorial Union
Terrace).=20

_____________________________________________________

        Traditional Wisconsin Picnic

Door County is the "thumb" of Wisconsin, a peninsula of farming and
fishing communities jutting into Lake Michigan. It is the home of the
Wisconsin Fishboil, a century-old tradition that combines good food with
dramatic excitement: a fire is built in a pit; the water boils; the=
 potatoes,
onions, and whitefish steaks cook to perfection. Listen for the bell! Then
watch as a spectacular, fiery flare-up causes the cauldron to boil over and
quench the fire below. Along with the whitefish stew, enjoy another
Wisconsin tradition, grilled bratwurst ("brats," to those in the know).=20
These flavorful sausages are a must at any Madison picnic. For those who
prefer vegetarian alternatives, we offer other local specialties,=
 Cheese-state
Quiche and Wisconsin Garden Gazpacho. All of these entr=82es will be
accompanied by salads, rye rolls, tea breads made with Wisconsin fruits
and nuts, and of course, Door County's famous cherry pie. Wisconsin
micro-brewery beer as well as wine, lemonade, and iced tea will be served
with the meal.

Please indicate on the registration form the number of tickets you would
like, and enclose payment with your registration fee.


********************************************************

               Housing


Conference participants will need to make their own reservations for=
 housing. =20
DSNA group rates have been arranged at the places listed below, and are=20
guaranteed until April 28. After that the group rate can't be guaranteed,=
=20
but will be honored if there are still rooms available. Be sure to mention=
=20
DSNA when you make your reservations. Conference rates are good Wednesday
through Saturday night.



LOWELL HALL =20
(Wisconsin Center Guest House, site of the meeting)

610 Langdon St.
Madison, WI 53706
(608) 256-2621

$48 single
$54 double
$58 triple
$64 parents + 2 kids

Breakfast included
Free parking; make arrangements when you reserve your room

check-in: 3 PM
check-out: 11 AM
__________________________________________________________

MADISON INN
(across the street from Lowell Hall)

601 Langdon St.
Madison, WI 53703
(608) 257-4391

$49 single
$54 double

No charge for kids under 16, extra $5 for others
Continental breakfast included
Free parking

check-in: 2 PM
check-out: noon
_________________________________________________________

THE EDGEWATER
(ca 4 blocks from Lowell Hall)

666 Wisconsin Ave.
Madison, WI 53703
(608) 256-9071 or (800) 922-5512

$79 lakeview (single or double)
$129 lakefront (single or double)

No charge for kids in room with parents
Free parking

check-in: 3 PM
check-out: noon
_______________________________________________________

OGG HALL
(UW dormitory, 5 blocks from Lowell Hall)

716 W. Dayton St.
Madison, WI 53706
Call UW Housing (608) 262-5576

$33.25 single
$21.00 (per person) double

For parking permits at a nearby lot, call (608) 262-8683 by April
28. Parking options $5 to $7 per day, and must be paid in advance.

check-in: noon
check-out: noon
Linens and maid service provided

********************************************************

            REGISTRATION FORM

       Dictionary Society of North America XI
                  at the=20
         University of Wisconsin-Madison


NAME:______________________________________________________________

ADDRESS:___________________________________________________________

CITY:________________ STATE:_______ ZIP:___________ COUNTRY:___________

TELEPHONE NUMBER(S):_______________________________________________

E-MAIL:______________________________________________________________


            Name Tag Information

     Name:__________________________________________

     Affiliation: ________________________________________


Registration Fee:
($35.00)...........................................................=
 $________

Traditional Wisconsin Picnic tickets:______ [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] $25.00 each $________
                                 =20
Total:
............................................................................
..................... $________


 Recommended arrival time: Wednesday, May 28th, 1997.

 Make check payable to: Dictionary of American Regional English=20
=20
 and send to:  DARE/DSNA Conference
              6125 H. C. White Hall
              600 N. Park Street
              Madison, WI 53706


 Please return this form by May 1, 1997.

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:02:20 -0700
From:  Peter Richardson <prichard[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hoosier

Mencken's American Language cites references to a "whoosher," but admits
that that seems far-fetched. Then: "Beyond North America, the most
reliable etymology connects it with hoozer, a Cumberland dialect term
applied to 'anything unusually large.'"

There's a gap there somewhere, maybe a Cumberland one.

Peter Richardson

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 14 Apr 1997 to 15 Apr 1997
************************************************
Subject: ADS-L Digest - 15 Apr 1997 to 16 Apr 1997

There are 16 messages totalling 526 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Grand Slam/Gotcha!/In God We Trust/Hoosier/Yankees
 2. hypercorrect intervocalic /t/ (8)
 3. appropriation of pejoratives (aka "taking ownership")
 4. A little humor (2)
 5. plea for advice (4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 01:55:14 -0400
From:  "Barry A. Popik" <Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: Grand Slam/Gotcha!/In God We Trust/Hoosier/Yankees

GRAND SLAM

"We are a grand slam society."
  --President Clinton, Shea Stadium, 15 April 1997

   The term comes from bridge. I sure hope he wasn't alluding to playing
all the tricks.
   Paul Dickson's BASEBALL DICTIONARY has the first citation from the Peter
Tamony file, 20 August 1940 in the San Francisco News. "Evidence that this
term did not come into use until 1940 can be found in the fact that it was
_not_ mentioned in Edward J. Nichols' 1939 thesis on baseball language,"
Dickson writes.
   OED has it under "slam" and has 1953 for baseball, 1933 for military,
and 1814 for bridge.
   I couldn't find a pre-1940 citation, and what I did find confirms "grand
slam" was not used. Perhaps I missed it, but the earliest Sporting News
citation was 23 September 1941, pg. 13, col. 7, "GRAND-SLAM HOMER SINKS
DODGERS."
   On 20 December 1934, pg. 5, cols. 2-3, the Sporting News headline reads
"Home Runs With Bases Loaded." On 16 May 1940, pg. 3, col. 3, a cartoon
character declares "Gosh, how I'd like ta knock homers an' triples with th'
bags loaded all th' time on them Yankees!" On 24 April 1939, NY
World-Telegram, pg. 16, the cartoon "Hazy Daisy" in the upper right hand
corner of the page has a newspaper that reads "SID LUCKMAN HITS HOMER WITH
BASES FULL."
   The Grand Slam quest continues, but it ain't there much before 1940.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
GOTCHA!

   I think Safire's column missed this. Check out David Crystal's THE
CAMBRIDGE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE (1995), pg. 275, for a nice
explanation of "gotcha."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
IN GOD WE TRUST

   The best source of materials on this is somewhere under my bed. Trust
me.
   I cannot do a full treatment now! I think there's an anaconda under
there!
   Safire refers to this in today's Op-Ed piece, but incredibly leaves out
"The Star-Spangled Banner," which has "In God Is Our Trust" at the end of its
fourth stanza.
   Safire writes: "Didn't Lincoln, at the insistence of his devout
Treasury Secretary, order 'In God We Trust' to appear on coins and
greenbacks?"
   Well, no.
   Coins, yes. It was used on the eagle ($10 gold piece), the double
eagle ($20 gold piece), the half eagle ($5 gold piece), the silver dollar,
the half dollar, and the quarter.
    Greenbacks came about 1956, when Lincoln was long dead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
HOOSIER

    I made an extensive posting on this January 1, 1997 on ADS-L. No one
made a single comment. Did no one read it?
    My pile on "Hoosier" is probably the best there is anywhere. In that
posting, I uncovered five pre-1833 citations. Because of the references to
"hoosier bait," I concluded that "hoosier" was something large--a big fish.
 I distinctly eliminated "Who's yer."
    So why is this coming up again????

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
YANKEES

    A new book about the New York Yankees (containing 1996 World Series
info) is out by Jay David. He states that they were called "Yankees" about
1908.
    I solved this last year.
    I traced it to April 1904 in William Randolph Hearst's NY EVENING
JOURNAL, in a sports section edited by Harry Beecher (Harriet Beecher Stowe's
grandnephew). It was also published in COMMENTS ON ETYMOLOGY. I sent it to
the Mayor of New York City, who never wrote back.
    I was never invited to the Yankees parade at City Hall.
    I was somewhere way in the back, crying.

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:11:21 -0400
From:  "(Dale F. Coye)" <Dfcoye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM>
Subject: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

I watched a fourth grade play yesterday in which the teacher had taught the
children to enunciate clearly, which often means they're supposed to aspirate
words spelled t wherever they occur (a practice I abhor because it doesn't
sound like Am. Eng. anymore). So words like letter, better, getting all had
aspirated t. I felt a certain sense of triumph when one girl also used one
in "shadow."

This reminds me of a friend who pronounced Beethoven with a voiced flap, and
as I think about it, it seems that in that word the normal (for me) aspirated
t is really quite unique when not after a morpheme boundary (pretext,
pretense). Are there any other intervocalic aspirate Ts?

Dale Coye
Princeton, NJ

------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:04:00 -0500
From:  Mark Mandel <Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM>
Subject: appropriation of pejoratives (aka "taking ownership")

THE FOLLOWING APPEARED IN LINGUIST #8.502.
PLEASE  D O   N O T   REPLY TO ME!

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:08:32 -0400
From: <rwilliams[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]smcvt.edu>
Subject: Appropriation of derogatory terms

Dear Colleagues-

A student of mine is interested in the appropriation of degrogatory terms
by groups which the terms are used against. An example of this would
be the use of the word <queer> by the homosexual rights group
<Queer Nation>. Can anyone direct us to work which has been done on
this subject? We will, of course, summarize your responses.

Thanks,

Bob Williams
Saint Micheal's College
From: <rwilliams[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]smcvt.edu>

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:37:50 -0400
From:  Jules Levin <jflevin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCRAC1.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

At 01:11 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I watched a fourth grade play yesterday in which the teacher had taught the
>children to enunciate clearly, which often means they're supposed to aspirate
>words spelled t wherever they occur (a practice I abhor because it doesn't
>sound like Am. Eng. anymore). So words like letter, better, getting all had
>aspirated t. I felt a certain sense of triumph when one girl also used one
>in "shadow."
>
>This reminds me of a friend who pronounced Beethoven with a voiced flap, and
>as I think about it, it seems that in that word the normal (for me) aspirated
>t is really quite unique when not after a morpheme boundary (pretext,
>pretense). Are there any other intervocalic aspirate Ts?
>


I think that stresses play a critical role. For some speakers/dialects (?)
/t/ is flapped only before an unstressed syllable. ('atom') At the other
end, everyone aspirates between unstressed and fully stressed: ('attend')
Compare the two t's in 'attitude'.  In between there are variations. With
two unreduced vowels I generally do not have a flap, e.g., in 'atoll'  I
venture a guess that your friend also reduces the 'o' in Beethoven to a
schwa. I once had a student in a ling class transcribe 'hotdog' as [h'ad[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]g]
When I checked, sure enuf that's how she pronounced it. By the way, similar
variation exists when /t/ is followed by an /n/: In my original Chicago
dialect I had a full aspirated [t] in 'enter' etc., but here is SoCal one
hardly ever hears it. I sometimes think there is a vestigial flap after the
/n/, but it is hard to hear. The minimal pair for most speakers would be
'enter' and 'inner' and they seem to have merged.

Jules Levin

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:06:19 CST
From:  Ellen Johnson <Ellen.Johnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WKU.EDU>
Subject: A little humor

   This is irrelevant here but, hey, go ahead and flame me!

   It was sent to me by someone at WKU, but I notice Duane's name at the
   bottom, coincidentally. Ellen


>>> Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take
>>>   to change a light bulb?
>
>>>
>>> A: 1,331:

>>>     1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail
>>>      list that the light bulb has been changed
>>>    14 to share similar experiences of changing light
>>>      bulbs and how the light bulb could have been
>>>      changed differently.
>>>     7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
>>>    27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
>>>      changing light bulbs.
>>>    53 to flame the spell checkers
>>>    156 to write to the list administrator complaining about
>>>      the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness
>>>      to this mail list.
>>>    41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
>>>    109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and
>>>      to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb
>>>    203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar,
>>>      alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing
>>>      light bulbs be stopped.
>>>    111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we
>>>      are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts
>>>      **are** relevant to this mail list.
>>>    306 to debate which method of changing light
>>>      bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs,
>>>      what brand of light bulbs work best for this
>>>      technique, and what brands are faulty.
>>>    27 to post URLs where one can see examples of
>>>      different light bulbs
>>>    14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and
>>>      to post corrected URLs.
>>>     3 to post about links they found from the URLs that
>>>      are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs
>>>      relevant to this list.
>>>    33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote
>>>      them including all headers and footers, and then
>>>      add "Me Too."
>>>    12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing
>>>      because they cannot handle the light bulb
>>>      controversey.
>>>    19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
>>>     4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
>>>     1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.
>>>    47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion
>>>      was meant for, leave it here.
>>>    143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.
>>>
>>
>
>
>Duane Campbell dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net
>http://www.epix.net/~dcamp/
>



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:37:25 -0500
To: jrbarret[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, kanthony[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ux1.cso.uiuc.edu,    vburton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ncsa.uiuc.edu,
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nadels[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]host1.swosu.edu (Stan Nadel))
Subject: A little humor

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:33:14 -0400
From:  Beverly Flanigan <FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

  The use of aspirated /t/ in "better" etc. is commonly taught by
  Language Arts teachers like those I have in an evening class; they
  insist that it is their "duty" (flapped, of course, in their own
  natural speech) to teach kids how to enunciate "properly," and they
  feel personally attacked when I tell them it's not normal or necessary.
  But alas, I have a Linguistics colleague who also says [bEt[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]r].

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:58:16 -0400
From:  Daniel Ezra Johnson <daniel.e.johnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU>
Subject: Re: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Jules Levin wrote:

> The minimal pair for most speakers would be
> 'enter' and 'inner' and they seem to have merged.
>
> Jules Levin
>

Does that mean So. Cal has that southern thang where "ten" and "tin" are
identical?

For me, from the Northeast, the Internet could just as well be spelled
Innernet (with a truly miniscule distinction, if any) but certainly not
Enternet.

DEJ

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:16:45 -0400
From:  Marie Nigro <NIGRO[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LU.LINCOLN.EDU>
Subject: Re: A little humor

Thought you's enjoy this one. And Fred says thanks (arf).

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:18:51 -0700
From:  Peter Richardson <prichard[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

> > The minimal pair for most speakers would be
> > 'enter' and 'inner' and they seem to have merged.
>
> Does that mean So. Cal has that southern thang where "ten" and "tin" are
> identical?

Well, maybe. But _enter_ prob'ly turns out more like "enner," as in
_ennertainment_.
>

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:21:55 -0400
From:  Jules Levin <jflevin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCRAC1.UCR.EDU>
Subject: Re: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

At 02:58 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> The minimal pair for most speakers would be
>> 'enter' and 'inner' and they seem to have merged.
>
>Does that mean So. Cal has that southern thang where "ten" and "tin" are
>identical?
>
>For me, from the Northeast, the Internet could just as well be spelled
>Innernet (with a truly miniscule distinction, if any) but certainly not
>Enternet.


I'm afraid it does mean that. This does not seem to be a complete merger
like cot and caught, but for many many young speakers at least pairs like
pin and pen are homophones.
By the way, Allan Metcalf noted this in his 'Riverside English', published
here 25 years ago when we were still priviledged to have him working here.

Jules Levin

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:18:06 -0400
From:  Peggy Smith <dj611[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU>
Subject: Re: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

I heard the pin/pen merger for the first time when I moved to
Henry County, Georgia from New Jersey. It was my first real encounter
with Southern speech. I am a teacher, and students said
safety pin, bobby pin, stick pin (thumb tack), and ink pin. I now teach
in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio. Whenever I hear a student ask another for
an ink pin, I ask where he spends his summers. Invariably, there is a
grandmother in Mississippi or cousins in Georgia.

Peggy Smith

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:46:41 -0700
From:  Peter Richardson <prichard[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: plea for advice

This coming fall I'll be teaching a freshman writing (English) course for
the first time, and I'd like some advice from all (or some) of you out
there. I'll preface this by saying that I've been teaching for 33 years,
but it has been in modern/medieval languages, and I've never had the joy
of teaching English. Now that our college has adopted a new curriculum
that spreads responsibility for Freshman English among the faculty, this
is about to change.

Mercifully, we get to choose our topic, and I have declared that I will
teach a course called "Language Matters." (That second word is both verb
and noun.) I intend to touch on many subjects, as you will see from the
following, but I have no idea how to go about choosing a text--or
texts--and opine that I might just have to put together a "reader." Any
suggestions? Thanks very much in advance!

Peter Richardson
Linfield College / Oregon


Language Matters will inquire into the nature of language through its use
in the United States today. It will examine:

a. history
 the influence of other languages on the development of the emerging
American idiom;
 the role of dialects as a source of constant renewal for American
English;
 the role of folk song and speech in defining our collective sense of
nation.

b. current issues
 Black English;
 the presence of minority languages (Puerto Rican Spanish, Cajun French,
Haitian Creole, etc.) within the greater English-speaking population;
 language politics, language planning, and the English Only movement;
 the political, economic, and social functions of a standard language;
 hate speech;
 additional topics (jargon, argot, onomastics) as time permits.

Central to our investigations and discussions will be the premise that
language indeed does matter. Whatever its context may be, it fosters or
hinders human relationships and must be used carefully. Students will
practice writing with different voices (e.g. letter to the editor, tour
brochure, assembly instructions, membership solicitation, broadside) and
playing the roles in class that they have had to assume in their
assignments. A portfolio of the term's written work will determine
two-thirds of the course grade. One-third of the grade will be based on
class participation.

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:15:35 -0500
From:  Gregory Pulliam <gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: plea for advice

>Central to our investigations and discussions will be the premise that
>language indeed does matter. Whatever its context may be, it fosters or
>hinders human relationships and must be used carefully.

Must it ALWAYS "be used carefully"? Can't we sometime just thro it aroun
like issa big ol' beach ball bouncin' in the grandstand of humanity?



Greg Pulliam
gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.iit.edu
Illinois Institute of Technology
Chicago

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:35:34 -0700
From:  Peter Richardson <prichard[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: plea for advice

> >hinders human relationships and must be used carefully.
>
> Must it ALWAYS "be used carefully"? Can't we sometime just thro it aroun
> like issa big ol' beach ball bouncin' in the grandstand of humanity?

You betcha. And I take what you just wrote as careful--knowledgeable--use
of the language for a specific purpose. This isn't exactly the equivalent
of the haberdasher's "sloppy chic" (I know that's not the term, but the
real one eludes me at the moment), but you have to be able to use the
language well to misuse it well...

I had, by the way, thought of using either a volume of the DARE or the
first volume of the Random House Hist. Dict. of American Slang, thinking
the students would at least have something in hand that they wouldn't want
to sell back to the bookstore at the end of the term. But then I don't
have any experience using either of these as a single text for entry-level
students. So I still need that advice, Colleagues!

 PR

------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:31:49 -0500
From:  Ditra Henry <D-Henry1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: plea for advice

I have a book suggestion. I use this book in a Freshman seminar ESL class
 on critical thinking. However most of my students will be going into
Freshman English after my course. I somewhat modify the book for them
because it is written with natice speakers in mind.
The name of the text is Encountering Cultures : Reading and writing ina
Changing World, Second Edition by Richard Holeton. It is a Pretince Hall
Title.  The book, per back cover, is a composition reader that explores
issues of language and culture, domestic cultural diversity, and global
cultural diversity with a range of authors and viewpoints.

I like the book because it is broken down into sections like Langugae and
Gender and has essays by such people as Deborah Tannen, Amy Tan,Sandra
Cisneros,James Baldwin,Noam Chomsky,Alice Walker, Valeriae Matsumoto and
many more. There is even a section on Sexual Orientation and Diversity.
Take a peek at it I think it's very up to date and I'm in the process of
referring this book to a Professor on our campus because we are
experimenting with a Freshman Writing Class and Language and Behavior,
linguistic course that work hand in hand;in other words the two professors
will coordinate their curriculums to reinforce concepts and assignments.


Ditra B. Henry
Northeastern Illinois University
Chicago, IL

------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:45:11 +0900
From:  Daniel Long <dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOHO.OSAKA-SHOIN.AC.JP>
Subject: Re: hypercorrect intervocalic /t/

In my native (West Tennessee) dialect we can keep at least some of our
intervocalic /t/s and /d/s straight by splitting a phoneme. So we can
tell if someone is talking about a /rAId[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]r/ who pens books, and a
/rAd[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]r/ who straddles a horse or a motorcycle. (I hope my keyboard
phonetics are close enough that you can figure them out.)
This is the source of confusion when we deal with speakers from farther
north who use the diphthong for both, or from farther south who use the
monophthong for both.

By the way, it isn't a /t/ problem, but there is hypercorrection in a
Platter*s song where they "restore" word-final /nd/ consonant clusters
that weren't consonant clusters in the first place.  It's in "Only
You". The line goes "only you cand make (etc., etc.)"

Danny Long

(Dr.) Daniel Long, Associate Professor
Japanese Language Research Center
Osaka Shoin Women's College
4-2-26 Hishiyanishi
Higashi-Osaka-shi, Osaka Japan 577
tel and fax +81-6-729-1831
email dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]joho.osaka-shoin.ac.jp
http://www.age.or.jp/x/oswcjlrc/index-e.htm

------------------------------

End of ADS-L Digest - 15 Apr 1997 to 16 Apr 1997
************************************************