End of ADS-L Digest - 4 Jun 1998 to 5 Jun 1998
There are 15 messages totalling 783 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Pansy; Irate; Internment; Hotel; Banjo; Teens; Ben Dova, et al. (2)
2. Tinner, tinhorn, Tin Jesus
3. college
4. Internment; Hotel
5. "You the man."
6. "You the man" (6)
7. "You da man."
8. Going postal in Oz
9. The punctuation mailing list


Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 02:25:36 EDT
From: "Barry A. Popik"
Subject: Pansy; Irate; Internment; Hotel; Banjo; Teens; Ben Dova, et al.

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From: Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com
To: ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.ed
Subject: Pansy; Irate; Internment; Hotel; Banjo; Teens; Ben Dova, et al.
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PANSY (continued)

I got to the Rodgers & Hammerstein Recorded Sound Archives today. "So I
Ups to Him" was a classic Jimmy Durante number that was on at least two of his
albums. One album featured numbers from the old Club Durant (the "e" couldn't
fit the sign). Thus, while the number was used in SHOW GIRL of 1929, it
probably dates from 1923.
In "So I Ups to Him," Durante bumps into someone on the sidewalk, and they
get into a fight. Durante says:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Horses neck
Do you?

Durante meets the same person three years later. "The Pansy!" is heard
near the end of the number.


I've been checking the new Performing Arts 1690-1783 CD-ROM for OED
antedates. The next few items were discovered there.
OED has "irate" from 1838.
"(T)he irate master made his escape" is in the Boston News Letter, 3-10
June 1717.


OED has "internment" from 1870.
(A)nd good will at his death, order'd the most magnificent internment for
him that has been known in New England" is in the New England Courant, 3-10
August 1724.


I forgot to check OED, but BARNHART'S DOE has "1765, in Smollett's
_Travels Through France and Italy_; earlier, a student residence at a
university (1748), borrowing from French _hotel_, from Old French _hostel_."
"Paris, April 30...The Ambassador at his return to his hotel" is in the
Boston News Letter, 14-21 August 1721.
"Hotel de Ville" is in the Boston News Letter, 4-11 June 1722.
"Hamburgh, Oct. 24...hotel" is in the New England Weekly Journal, 15
January 1728.
"The Hotel of France" is in the Boston Gazette, 21-27 January 1730.
"A letter from Paris, Jan 4. ... In the course of this month will be
shewn at the hotel de Langueville" is in the American Weekly Mercury, 11-18
May 1738.
And so on. I deserve a free double-bed for this.


The DA has "Bangil" in 1740; the OED has 1764.
"Run away, some months ago, from Capt. Thomas Prather, of Prince George's
County, Maryland, a Negroe man, named Scipio, is of short stature, plays on
the banjo, and can sing" is in the Pennsylvania Gazette, 13 July 1749.
"Bangeo" is in the New York Mercury, 5 November 1753, and "banjoe" is in
the Pennsylvania Gazette, 17 November 1757.


For the study of "teenager," it's worth noting that "Miss-in-her-Teens"
is in the Pennsylvania Chronicle, 19-26 December 1768--which is quite some
time before the 1930s.


I was recently checking the Knickerbocker Magazine for its forms of
"hello." (Why isn't it on CD-ROM?) This doesn't quite antedate "stars" (OED
1824), but it antedates "stock company" (DA 1839). From the Knickerbocker
Magazine, March 1836, pg. 311:

THE FRANKLIN THEATRE (...) Its _stock_ company, it is generally
conceded, is unexceptionable; and it has its fair share of 'stars'--those
twinkling luminaries, without whose evanescent light, (however erroneous the
supposition,) most theatres are considered as being involved in little better
than total darkness.


I left this off my discussion of "rock and roll" in 1937-38. It's from
1941, and antedates "cook with gas" (1942) on page 471 of the RHHDAS. It also
antedates "square" cited in Barnhart's DOE "the slang sense being out-of-date,
old-fashioned, or too conventional is found in 1946, in American English,
originally as a jazz usage."

ROCKIN' AND REELIN' (1941)(from the Universal production "Ride 'Em Cowboy")
By Don Raye and Gene de Paul

Whatcha say we all go rockin' and reelin'
Make the old Virgina reel really hop
The corn will thrive if you plant it in jive
And I'll bet that it pops your top.
Hit the timber and go rockin' and reelin'
Do the boogie if the beat is in eight
You're just nowhere if your dancin' is square
'Cause you'll swing like a rusty gate.
Put rhythm to your doe se doein'
It's easy to make it mix
Keep jumpin' when you're heel and toein'
If you really want to get your kicks.
Swing your partner when you're rockin' and reelin'
Do your dancin' like you haven't a care
You'll be first class, you'll be cookin' with gas
If you go rockin' round the square.


Fred Shapiro is checking JSTOR for antedates; I said before it was a bit
dull. Dull for slang--checking "slang" as a keyword turned up almost nothing
useful. Checking "dude" turned up old citations, and one citation that was
actually the word "in-clude."
However, as jargon goes, it's very fine. I found Shapiro's first "WASP"
citation in seconds. Also, an earlier "price-earnings ratio" from the 1930s.
OED has "status symbol" from 1955, but I found it in "Symbols of Class
Status" by Erving Goffman, the British Journal of Sociology, December 1951,
vol. II, No. 4, pg. 294:

Specialized means of displaying one's position frequently develop. Such
sign-vehicles have been called _status symbols_. They are the cues which
select for a person the status that is to be imputed to him and the way in
which others are to treat him.

Herbert Spencer's THE PRINCIPLES OF SOCIOLOGY is cited, but I didn't find
"status symbol" in that large work.


Neither Ben Dova nor his sister Eileen U. Bendova is in the RHHDAS. In
Zit's Theatrical Newspaper, 7 March 1931, pg. 12, col. 3, a performer billed
himself as "BEN DOVA, Convivial Inebriate."
In a previous posting about "fairy," I mentioned that it possibly comes
from a "new and gorgeous pantomime" that was presented in the 1870s at the
"Theatre Royal--Olymprick."
Check out these character names (caution is advised, however!):

Masturbation; Fairfuck; Fuckwell the First; Cherrytop; Big-Prick; Sir
Whitybrown Bumfodder; Tickleroot; Bubo; Sir Secondary Symptom; Dr. Bolus De
Capivi; Gamahuche; Princess Shovituppa; Princess Syphilis; Gonorrhea; Lady
Clara Cindasifta; Clitoris; Chancre; and the ambassadors:
Russian--Baron Tossisselfoff.
German--Herr Crap Von Schnitzenstein.
Italian--Marchese De Catamito.
French--Chevalier De La Belle Merde.
Spanish--Don Pego Castrato.
Greek--His Excellency Ximenes Kismias.
Turkish--Moistool Pasha.
English--Sir John Thomas.
Japanese--Shudami Dum Singh.


Almost forgot. The "rag" in Gerald Cohen's baseball poem means "pennant."
It dates from the late 1880s or 1890s.
People are confusing "tinners" with "tinkers"--an old Irish term.
"Tinner" might mean "itinerant." Perhaps it has something to do with "tin
can"--I have a wonderful period cartoon about a baseball "canning factory."